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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Sprint PCS / May 2006Is Sprint draining my battery?
I know this is going to sound a little strange, and when I call the technical department they may refuse to take me seriously, so please hear me out. For a few weeks now I've been writing about battery issues with my wife's phone. Long story short, we both had Sanyo 4920's. Never a moment of trouble. All of a sudden my wife's battery starts draining suddenly. Not all the time, but seemingly at random. I'd recharge both phones and everything would be OK for a week or whatever - batteries would both run down normally. Then I'd recharge again, and my wife's phone would completely discharge in one day. I bought a new battery for it, but same thing. So I bring the phone in for diagnostics, they find nothing. It happens again once more (note that this pattern started less than eight weeks ago). So I get two new phones. Same phones. Charge both, use them at the same rate, and my wife's discharges completely. Twice. This is not the phone's fault. The only clue I got that something might be going on is when I was recharging it tonight, twice the "entering Sprint area" message flashed (phone is set to Sprint only). Question: is it possible that there's something at the Sprint office that is causing my wife's number to go off-line or something periodically, and in turn causing the phone to search incessantly for a signal? That's the only thing that would cause her phone to drain before mine. We both work from home. The phones sit side by side on the counter. We both use them about the same amount, which is not a whole lot. I'm going to ask SPCS to open a trouble ticket, but as I say, I'm betting they're either going to know immediately what's happening or fit me for a tin foil hat. Any advice greatly appreciated. DGI > Question: is it possible that there's something at the Sprint >office that is causing my wife's number to go off-line or something >periodically, and in turn causing the phone to search incessantly for >a signal? Update to this: I opened a trouble ticket on the line, and I'm digging in for a long struggle. I reprovisioned the phone, but even afterward I noticed something odd. As I'm holding my wife's phone and mine side by side (same phone, both brand new), her signal is fluctuating while mine remains constantly strong. Then she loses signal completely and immediately gets the "entering Sprint service area" message. This happens four or five times in succession. This is definitely something happening at the local office, and as I wrote in my previous message, it only started happening two months ago. But to get them to admit there might be something technically wrong with the number, and not the phone, will be difficult. I had this happen once, seven years ago, and it took two dozen long, hard phone calls to get fixed. Any comments welcome. DGI Guess: Sanyo 4920 is trimode. Is your wifes phone switching to analog mode which would cause more rapid battery drain? Maybe somethings wrong on the phone with the digital side such as the antenna? > Guess: Sanyo 4920 is trimode. Is your wifes phone switching to analog > mode which would cause more rapid battery drain? Maybe somethings > wrong on the phone with the digital side such as the antenna? That could very well be the problem. David, if you have another local SPCS store in the vicinity, go down there, explain the problem that her phone is dropping down to analog, and ask for another diagnostic to be run on her phone. Bob >> Guess: Sanyo 4920 is trimode. Is your wifes phone switching to analog >> mode which would cause more rapid battery drain? Maybe somethings [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >store in the vicinity, go down there, explain the problem that her phone is >dropping down to analog, Thanks, Bob, but the phone's not dropping to analog, it's suddenly losing signal altogether. I suspect this is what was happening with the previous 4920, and is now happening with the 8300. Both phones were checked, but I almost didn't need that. The 4920 was operating flawlessly for two years, prior to the past two months, during which this has occurred. It's not the phone. I have a trouble ticket in on the number. I'm dead sure it's something happening out of the office. In fact when SPCS called her number this morning to report on the trouble ticket, the call went right to mail. This number is having problems. Thanks! DGI > It's not the phone. I have a trouble ticket in on the number. > I'm dead sure it's something happening out of the office. In fact when > SPCS called her number this morning to report on the trouble ticket, > the call went right to mail. This number is having problems. > > Thanks! DGI David, if you're able to find the diagnostic screen (often involves the code 040793 in some fashion) it would be interesting to know if your wife's phone and yours show different cell identification numbers while they're behaving differently. Someone here said a long time ago that in heavy-usage areas, Sprint adds multiple cells with overlapping coverage to the same towers, and arbitrarily splits phones among the overlapped equipment. If your wife's cell is having trouble, your trouble ticket may get results. >David, if you're able to find the diagnostic screen >(often involves the code 040793 in some fashion) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >and arbitrarily splits phones among the overlapped equipment. >If your wife's cell is having trouble, your trouble ticket may get results. I haven't tried accessing the diagnostics myself on this because, frankly, I can't even pretend to have a grasp of how that works. But what you said may make a lot of sense. Sure enough, when Sprint Technical got back to me tonight he insisted it was the handset. I told him that I had diagnostics done just today, but his system hadn't been updated to show that. He wants me to go back (again...another two hour ordeal) to the Sprint store tomorrow and have them do diagnostics again so they can access the information. He said that there was no way, if both phones are at the same location, that one can be getting an essentially different signal from the other. I don't believe this is true. The two phone numbers may be carried on servers in buildings five or more miles apart. Sure the same tower may be feeding both phones, but what I'm questioning is what they're being fed. It's simply too coincidental that out of four phones, two with the same number would have exactly the same defect, one developing it after two years and the other one coming new with it. I will go to the store tomorrow, but I'll level with the manager and ask him to simply swap it with another new handset. I think he has the discretion to do that as they're only a few days old. I asked the tech what happens if I get yet another handset and the same thing happens, but he had no real answer ("uhh..then we'll have to look into it further". So why can't they "look into 'it' further now?) Anyway, thanks for the input! DGI t what you said may make a lot of sense. > Sure enough, when Sprint Technical got back to me tonight he > insisted it was the handset. I told him that I had diagnostics done > just today, but his system hadn't been updated to show that. He wants > me to go back (again...another two hour ordeal) to the Sprint store > tomorrow and have them do diagnostics again so they can access the > information. David, This might sound a bit wacky, but, this PROBLEM sounds wacky. :) And my idea might answer this question once and for all. When you're getting the diagnsotics done at the store, ask the tech to *switch* the ESNs on the account. In other words, have him swap YOUR ESN to HER number, and HER ESN to YOUR number. Then, take the phones home and see how the handsets compare. If she's still having problems with YOUR phone, then it's clear that somehow, the account provisioning is to blame. If YOU are now having reception problems with what was HER phone, then your wife has simply had incredibly bad luck with equipment and it IS the handset that is bad.  SignatureE-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply. >David, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >*switch* the ESNs on the account. In other words, have him swap YOUR >ESN to HER number, and HER ESN to YOUR number. Thanks, but I had the Sprint manager give me a whole new handset. Same problem. I've been saying it's not the handset, but now they cannot argue with me anymore. I'm on the phone with tech support while I'm typing this. I'm asking them to re-route the number onto a different part of the system. Wish me luck, and thanks again! DGI > Guess: Sanyo 4920 is trimode. Is your wifes phone switching to analog > mode which would cause more rapid battery drain? Maybe somethings > wrong on the phone with the digital side such as the antenna? That's exactly what I was thinking. If the phone roams onto an analog signal, the battery conservation features that are unique to digital will not work. Easy way to test it-- 1: Check to see if the phone roams by looking at the display indicator. 2: Set the phone not to roam at all. Then see if the battery drain problem goes away. My Samsung phone turns itself off in Analog mode after 15 minutes, and it comes on for a short while every 15 minutes afterwards to see if there is a digital signal. If he is traveling in an analog area, he might want to carry extra batteries or, if possible, use a 12 volt charger. >> Guess: Sanyo 4920 is trimode. Is your wifes phone switching to analog >> mode which would cause more rapid battery drain? Maybe somethings >> wrong on the phone with the digital side such as the antenna? >That's exactly what I was thinking. If the phone roams onto an analog >signal, the battery conservation features that are unique to digital will >not work. It doesn't have to roam to analog. All it has to do is be in a fringe area where it is searching for a signal. I used to work in an office where the back 3/4's didn't have any coverage. My phone would run down in two days where it would have 5 days charge elsewhere. >Guess: Sanyo 4920 is trimode. Is your wifes phone switching to analog Our phones are always set to "SPCS only". This happened with the 4920 and with the new 8300's It's not the phone. Thanks, DGI >mode which would cause more rapid battery drain? Maybe somethings >wrong on the phone with the digital side such as the antenna? > I know this is going to sound a little strange, and when I >call the technical department they may refuse to take me seriously, so >please hear me out. > For a few weeks now I've been writing about battery issues >with my wife's phone. Long story short, we both had Sanyo 4920's. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >my wife's phone would completely discharge in one day. I bought a new >battery for it, but same thing. > So I bring the phone in for diagnostics, they find nothing. It >happens again once more (note that this pattern started less than >eight weeks ago). > So I get two new phones. Same phones. Charge both, use them at >the same rate, and my wife's discharges completely. Twice. This is not >the phone's fault. > The only clue I got that something might be going on is when I >was recharging it tonight, twice the "entering Sprint area" message >flashed (phone is set to Sprint only). Carry both for a day to the same locations and see if her's discharges faster. Hint: higher power levels are used when farther from a cell tower. Your wife's workplace or somewhere else she spends time may be in a fringe area. >> The only clue I got that something might be going on is when I >>was recharging it tonight, twice the "entering Sprint area" message [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Your wife's workplace or somewhere else she spends time may be in >a fringe area. In addition to having diagnostics done on the phone this morning (100% OK), I did in fact do some checking along the lines you describe. (I'm so frustrated by this I'm checking it from every angle I can possibly think of). Carrying the phone to different locations today and checking it alongside mine I noted that the behavior of both phones was exactly the same. So the problem is with THIS number, here in my HOME. What that means in technical terms I just have no idea. For some reason the signal that emanates from the office where my wife's number is held has trouble reaching my home. Not true of my number, which is completely consistent. And in fact this has only been happening for two months. Something like this happened seven years ago, if you don't mind a longish story: I had just gotten a new Nokia 6185 and it worked brilliantly, except that the caller ID always said "Caller Unknown". I called SPCS and asked about it and they insisted I needed a new phone. I fought with them because it just didn't make any sense. I'm not an engineer, but the notion that everything about the handset working perfectly except the caller ID was a *handset* problem seemed ludicrous on its face. I argued with them to check it out, and just kept at them through at least six escalations. I finally got some guy out in an Arizona office who was apparently a technical division higher-up. He agreed that it made no sense to check the handset and promised to look into it. A day later he called back to say that there had been a fire at the office where my number was carried, and that a bunch of numbers were taken off the main servers and put on provisional servers housed elsewhere. Those servers weren't capable of handling the demands of Caller ID. After the fire was cleaned up, they were supposed to put all of the numbers back on the main servers, but they plum forgot about mine. He promised he'd take care of it immediately, and within 24 hours I had caller ID on every applicable call - and have for seven years since. But they'll tell you it's a faulty handset with 100% conviction until they can no longer get away with it. Thanks for your advice. DGI > So the problem is with THIS number, here in my HOME. What that > means in technical terms I just have no idea. David, Does your phone number and your wife's number have the same area code and exchange? In other words do the first six digits match? If not, there is a SLIGHT possibility that the two numbers are being served out of difference mobile telephone switching offices (MTSO for short). In theory, this shouldn't cause any signal problems at all, but I can see a situation where, in practice, a more distant office might prefer to keep your wife's phone on a cell station local to it and more distant to you, rather than constantly route calls to a closer MTSO. If you're willing to post here or e-mail to me the area codes and first three digits of the two phone numbers (if they don't match), I can look up their switch assignments. Also, have these numbers been ported from another carrier, or were these numbers always activated on Sprint? SignatureE-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply. It sounds like Sprint grew it's capacity, in doing so your wifes phone began "hashing" to the new frequency, perhaps even on the same tower, where the RF environment is different - possibly worse. Therefore the two phones act differently. This has nothing to do with the phone itself, but rather the phone number which the network uses to tell the phone to use one frequency or another. Don't bother asking a salesperson to explain this, they won't know. If you swap numbers with your wife, then your phone should begin working like hers is. Since it's a random feature you may have to ask for a couple of different numbers before you get one that works on the "good" carrier. Good Luck. >It sounds like Sprint grew it's capacity, in doing so your wifes phone >began "hashing" to the new frequency, perhaps even on the same tower, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >numbers before you get one that works on the "good" carrier. >Good Luck. Thanks, I'm trying to avoid getting a new number, but I suppose I will if I have to. DGI >If you're willing to post here or e-mail to me the area codes and first >three digits of the two phone numbers (if they don't match), I can look >up their switch assignments. Thanks, I don't mean to trouble you: Mine: 917 541 ---- Hers: 917 676 ---- >Also, have these numbers been ported from another carrier, or were these >numbers always activated on Sprint? Always SPCS. Thanks! DGI >> If you're willing to post here or e-mail to me the area codes and first >> three digits of the two phone numbers (if they don't match), I can look [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Mine: 917 541 ---- > Hers: 917 676 ---- These two numbers are homed at a central office in the same building (111 8th Ave, New York, NY 10011-5201), but they are indeed on different switching equipment WITHIN that building. 917-541's switch ID: NYCMNY83CM2 917-676's switch ID: NYCMNY83CM3 It's quite possible that those switches could well be right next to each other. But, routing could still be handled differently. SignatureE-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply. >> Thanks, I don't mean to trouble you: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >It's quite possible that those switches could well be right next to each >other. But, routing could still be handled differently. Many thanks. I've posted elsewhere that I seem to have stumbled upon the magic word to get them to look into the system on this (as of tonight the phone is still randomly going in and out of signal). They called back to say that within 24 hours there should be some resolution. When I call them tomorrow I will be armed with this information. Very grateful for your help. DGI >If you're willing to post here or e-mail to me the area codes and first >three digits of the two phone numbers (if they don't match), I can look >up their switch assignments. I just spent about an hour talking with tech support on this and something in my gut tells me they're beginning to take it more seriously. I think I had to have that phone switched to get them into a corner where they couldn't make ME do any more footwork. I really do appreciate everyone's comments and advice on this. I'll say also that although they really haven't been all that helpful thus far, I think that's more due to protocols than laziness or simple incompetence. Everyone I've dealt with has been polite, well-spoken and seemed sincere in wanting to help. This doesn't ameliorate all the misery I've been going through, including buying a new battery for my previous phone and the many hours of work lost, but it counts for something in my book. DGI My wife's phone gets coverage places mine doesn't. Though they are different models, they operate in the same bands. But in my case, the phones are different. So I chuck it up to that difference. Both are top of the line phones. Good luck. Sprint has been stealing battery power from phones to power their towers. Or your phone is being used as a relay device for spam. > Sprint has been stealing battery power from phones to power their > towers. Or your phone is being used as a relay device for spam. Reportedly, in diagnostic mode cell phones can be configured to listen to conservsations without any indication to the owner. Is NSA and Co. listening to your phones for some reason ?? A one day loss of battery strength could indicate frequent "Check-ups" by the Cheney crowd on your activities. JG > Reportedly, in diagnostic mode cell phones can be configured to listen > to > conservsations without any indication to the owner. No. It USED to be true, of the old OKI and early Motorola Teletac phones, back when AMPS was the reigning standard in the US. There was a field diagnostic mode that allowed for the unit to "scan" cellular channels, allowing the user to listen in. With CDMA at least, you need a lot more than just a cell phone in field service mode to listen in on other calls over the air. While such equipment does exist, its expense and rarity tends to make it a lot easier and cheaper for Law Enforcement to just tap the phone line at the switching center. > A one day loss of battery strength could indicate frequent "Check-ups" > by the Cheney crowd on your activities. I also hear there's a sale on tinfoil at Wal-Mart. :P SignatureE-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply. > > Reportedly, in diagnostic mode cell phones can be configured to listen > > to [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > easier and cheaper for Law Enforcement to just tap the phone line at the > switching center. I'm not refering to cell phone call tapping. I'm refering to turning on the microphone on a phone in the OP's kitchen to check on any converstions in their home. This seems more plausible than signal searching causing battery drain on one of a pair of identical phones sitting in their cradles in the OP's home. Mr. Imber hasn't stated if any of their activities would warrant bugging by the NSA crowd. This "feature" was mentioned by Penn (of Penn & Teller) on his radio show. > > A one day loss of battery strength could indicate frequent "Check-ups" > > by the Cheney crowd on your activities. > > I also hear there's a sale on tinfoil at Wal-Mart. :P Such personal jabs only make the original point seem more valid and plausible. JG >Mr. Imber hasn't stated if any of their activities would warrant >bugging by the NSA crowd. Warrant it? I think the very lack of warrant on the part of the NSA is what the controversy is about. It would be curious why they'd pick my wife's line and not mine. I like intrigue, but this is not that. DGI PS: I am still working with them every day to get this issue solved, and may be on the verge. When this whole thing started I wrote here that I knew it would be a long, daily slog, and I dreaded it. I was right about the slog, but it hasn't been too awful so far, if in fact I'm within a day or so of remedying it. > >Mr. Imber hasn't stated if any of their activities would warrant > >bugging by the NSA crowd. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > It would be curious why they'd pick my wife's line and not > mine. The question to ponder is if either of you are candidates for "monitoring"? With a NYC address, its not out of the question. Again, I'm refering to bugging conservations inside the apartment. NOT their cell phone calls which is easily done from the telco central office. And so far NO ONE has denied that this "home bugging" by turning on the microphone, detecting any voices and then sending out the conversation is possible. JG > I like intrigue, but this is not that. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > right about the slog, but it hasn't been too awful so far, if in fact > I'm within a day or so of remedying it. >> >Mr. Imber hasn't stated if any of their activities would warrant >> >bugging by the NSA crowd. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >microphone, detecting any voices and then sending out the conversation >is possible. Then let me be the first. There is NO WAY to remotely turn on the microphone in a wireless handset. In case I wasn't clear, let me repeat, there is NO WAY. Good? :) SignaturePaul Miner >> And so far NO ONE has denied that this "home bugging" by turning on >> the microphone, detecting any voices and then sending out the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > microphone in a wireless handset. In case I wasn't clear, let me > repeat, there is NO WAY. Good? :) You really know how to ruin a good conspiracy theory, Paul. ^_^ SignatureMike | Have you ever imagined a world with no '04 FLHTCUI | hypothetical situations? >And so far NO ONE has denied that this "home bugging" by turning on the >microphone, detecting any voices and then sending out the conversation >is possible. I don't think it is, but I CAN see you through your camera phone, and I want you to stop doing THAT! > >And so far NO ONE has denied that this "home bugging" by turning on the > >microphone, detecting any voices and then sending out the conversation > >is possible. > > I don't think it is, but I CAN see you through your camera > phone, and I want you to stop doing THAT! I'd trust Penn Jillette more than the Scarecrow and other characters around ACS. Meanwhile keep swapping phones and buying the "switch" glitch story. JG >I'm not refering to cell phone call tapping. I'm refering to turning on >the microphone on a phone in the OP's kitchen to check on any >converstions in their home. This seems more plausible than signal >searching causing battery drain on one of a pair of identical phones >sitting in their cradles in the OP's home. Are you next going to suggest foil hats and undies? If a govt. agency is going to get a wiretap, it isn't going to sniff the RF network; it is simply going to record the call at sprint's end. If you're getting a weak(er) signal than before , which I am here in sunny Cali. Then Yes that will drain your battery. While digital phones are much easier on batteries than the old analog phones. They do still check in regulary with the cell tower. The power output on your cell phone is variable. If you get a weak signal, your phone will have to send a strong signal to handshake with the cell tower. That is whats draining your battery. I'm having the same exact problem with my phone as of about 4 weeks ago. > >I'm not refering to cell phone call tapping. I'm refering to turning on > >the microphone on a phone in the OP's kitchen to check on any [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > sniff the RF network; it is simply going to record the call at > sprint's end. |
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