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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Sprint PCS / May 2008T-Mobile + Sprint/Nextel
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080505/deutsche_telekom_sprint_nextel.html?.v=2 what's the problem with Nextel, and why are they loosing customers ?  Signature---------------------------------- "If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something." - Steven Wright > http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080505/deutsche_telekom_sprint_nextel.html?.v=2 > > what's the problem with Nextel, and why are they loosing customers ? Simple- Sprint ignored the brand and waited to work on the network until it was too late. >> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080505/deutsche_telekom_sprint_nextel.html?.v=2 >> >> what's the problem with Nextel, and why are they loosing customers ? > >Simple- Sprint ignored the brand and waited to work on the network until it >was too late. Nevertheless, I don't see how the technology hurdles that would have to be overcome make this deal workable. While it's true Sprint did ignore the brand and/or manage the integration somewhat poorly, I think a large part of that is because integrating two carriers using completely different technologies and business models is quite tough no matter who tries it. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >>> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080505/deutsche_telekom_sprint_nextel.html?.v >>> =2 [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > no matter who tries it. > ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** Agree 100% and it makes me wonder what magic pill T-Mo has to cure it.CDMA/GSM makes no more sense than CDMA/iDen. >>>> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080505/deutsche_telekom_sprint_nextel.html?.v >>>> =2 [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Agree 100% and it makes me wonder what magic pill T-Mo has to cure > it.CDMA/GSM makes no more sense than CDMA/iDen. I think the article pretty much said the same thing. See how the market reacts, and then take a breath and decide. What about the same type of different merging of networks with ATT and Cingular - the old GSM vs TDMA battle ? >>>>> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080505/deutsche_telekom_sprint_nextel.html?.v >>>>> =2 [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > What about the same type of different merging of networks > with ATT and Cingular - the old GSM vs TDMA battle ? GSM was the next evolutionary step for TDMA in the US. IIRC, ATT has started the GSM conversion prior to the merger. > > What about the same type of different merging of networks > > with ATT and Cingular - the old GSM vs TDMA battle ? > > GSM was the next evolutionary step for TDMA in the US. I'm not sure it was "evolutionary" as much as it was simply a cheaper conversion to GSM than to CDMA, so they chose the path of least finacial resistance! > IIRC, ATT has > started the GSM conversion prior to the merger. Absolutely- both (old) AT&T and Cingular were converting from TDMA to GSM prior to the merger. In fact, in the "history is repeating itself" department, like Sprint and the Nextel merger, (old) AT&T had major customer service and technical/billing issues with the transition, started losing customers and offered fantastic deals to stem the hemorraging (like Sprint with SERO?) and weakened to the point of becoming a takeover candidate by Cingular. Cingular had their share of issues with the conversion as well, but handled it more smoothly by taking their time. ATTWS (old AT&T) seemed to rush the transition- they forced new customers to choose GSM only before the GSM network was fully built out, for example, and switched too much capacity from TDMA to GSM before enough of the customer base had switched, deteriorating the network the bulk of their customers used. Even worse, they only offered a single TDMA/GSM phone, IIRC- an unattractive, featureless Siemens. By comparison, Cingular was very patient- allowing TDMA sales to continue until the GSM network was at least a fair approximation of the TDMA network, and offered two TDMA/GSM combo models, from major manufacturers: Nokia and SE. > I'm not sure it was "evolutionary" as much as it was simply a cheaper > conversion to GSM And fast. Each one of the three sectors was off the air for only about an hour ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.cellular.sprintpcs.] > Agree 100% and it makes me wonder what magic pill T-Mo has to cure > it.CDMA/GSM makes no more sense than CDMA/iDen. Agree 100%, and am concerned that after leaving post-merger Sprint due to budget cuts that adversely affected Customer Service, I'll have to do the same thing with T-Mo. The only other option here is AT&T/Cingular; there is no way in hell Verizon will be getting my business back. SignatureSteve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol > Agree 100% and it makes me wonder what magic pill T-Mo has to cure > it.CDMA/GSM makes no more sense than CDMA/iDen. True, but this might simply be a spectrum grab. Sprint is bleeding customers, so given the churn rate, the customer base itself isn't really worth much- T-Mo would really just be buying licenses, infrastructure, and headaches! (The old) AT&T and Cingular certainly had some hurdles converting their TDMA networks to GSM, but they managed to pull it off in the long run. T- Mo might be thinking that adding Sprint's spectrum (if you'll pardon the pun!) is worth the pain of migrating one technology to the other. Like with the GAIT and GSM/TDMA handsets offered by Cingular and AT&T during the transition, a few GSM/CDMA combo handsets (like the "world" Blackberries and Global Q Sprint and Verizon offer now, but reworked to use American GSM as well) could ease the transition to whatever technology (most likely GSM, to leverage their international networks) T-Mo settles on, and give customers instant access to both networks without waiting for any conversion. It wouldn't be easy, or pretty, to pull off, but no one besides T-Mo (or maybe Alltel) is really capable of acquiring Sprint- with the recent 700 MHz auctions, both AT&T and Verizon are close to, at, (or over) the 95 MHz spectrum "soft cap" in many markets, and couldn't acquire Sprint without some serious divestiture (most likely to T-Mo anyway!) >> Agree 100% and it makes me wonder what magic pill T-Mo has to cure >> it.CDMA/GSM makes no more sense than CDMA/iDen. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > really worth much- T-Mo would really just be buying licenses, > infrastructure, and headaches! You need to look at ARPU before making that statement. While churn is high, there are still 50+ million paying customers on the books, far more than T-Mo can claim. If they were simply looking for pectrum, buying the Nextel portion of the portfolio would make more sense. > (The old) AT&T and Cingular certainly had some hurdles converting > their [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > acquire Sprint without some serious divestiture (most likely to T-Mo > anyway!) > You need to look at ARPU before making that statement. While churn is > high, there are still 50+ million paying customers on the books, far more > than T-Mo can claim. If they were simply looking for pectrum, buying the > Nextel portion of the portfolio would make more sense. You're right, of course. What I was trying to say (very badly!) that Sprint's customer base would have little or no value if T-Mo tried to mass convert 40+ million customers to GSM, since they could take the opportunity to shop around if forced to switch to new T-Mo GSM equipment. "Old" AT&T, and to a lesser extent, Cingular, ran into this during the TDMA-to-GSM migration- a LOT of ATTWS customers, particularly, who "traded down" from a robust TDMA/analog network to an unfinished GSM one, ended up jumping to Verizon or, in lesser numbers, to Sprint. Frankly, if T-Mo could marry Sprint's spectrum and customer base with T- Mo's exemplary customer service, they'd be a force to be reckoned with. The real problem is what to do with Sprint's network- trying to integrate them and migrate one company's customers to the other would be expensive and very risky (the "jump ship" opportunity I mentioned above.) If T-Mo instead forgoes trying to integrate them, but instead leaves them be for the near-to-mid term, and holds off integrating until they can choose a single 4G upgrade path for both networks, (like LTE) they might pull it off. >> You need to look at ARPU before making that statement. While churn >> is high, there are still 50+ million paying customers on the books, [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > until they can choose a single 4G upgrade path for both networks, > (like LTE) they might pull it off. Hmmmm- trying to manage a customer base using two different technologies. Where I have heard that one before? :-) > > If T-Mo instead forgoes trying to integrate them, but instead > > leaves them be for the near-to-mid term, and holds off integrating [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Hmmmm- trying to manage a customer base using two different technologies. > Where I have heard that one before? :-) I never said it'd be easy! ;-) Seriously, though, Cingular managed ok back when they were TDMA east of the Rockies and GSM to the west, so it can be done, apparently... >> > If T-Mo instead forgoes trying to integrate them, but instead >> > leaves them be for the near-to-mid term, and holds off integrating [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > ok back when they were TDMA east of the Rockies and GSM to the west, > so it can be done, apparently... True, but that was because they were originally TDMA everywhere and did an overlay with GSM starting on the east coast. But your post gave me an interesting thought. ATT Wireless, Verizon, Cingular, T-Mobile and Alltel all ran dual technologies at some point in their lifetime while going from analog to digital platforms. The only two major carriers to not have any experience running two technologies at the same time? That would be Sprint (digital from day one) and Nextel (always iDen). Maybe that explains the integration problems. > > I never said it'd be easy! ;-) Seriously, though, Cingular managed > > ok back when they were TDMA east of the Rockies and GSM to the west, > > so it can be done, apparently... > > True, but that was because they were originally TDMA everywhere and did an > overlay with GSM starting on the east coast. I was really referring to the pre-conversion days, when Cingular was formed by the combination of SBMS (TDMA), BellSouth Mobile (TDMA), and PacTel (GSM) they ran the two separate networks for years. I always found it ironic when traveling in the west with my SBMS-market TDMA phone, that I had to roam on AT&T or Verizon when the air above me was filled with unusable Cingular signal! > But your post gave me an interesting thought. ATT Wireless, Verizon, > Cingular, T-Mobile and Alltel all ran dual technologies at some point in > their lifetime while going from analog to digital platforms. The only two > major carriers to not have any experience running two technologies at the > same time? That would be Sprint (digital from day one) and Nextel > (always iDen). Maybe that explains the integration problems. Good point! ;-) (Although, AFAIK, T-Mo's always been GSM, back to Voicestream, Omnipoint, Aerial, etc.) But kidding aside, generally the examples you mentioned (AMPS-to-TDMA or AMPS-to-CDMA) were overlays with full backwards compatiibity with the old technology, so users "upgrading" never LOST coverage as a result. Contrast that with (old) AT&T conning (um, I mean "encouraging") customers to switch from their excellent AMPS/TDMA network to their then still unfinshed GSM network- many users lost coverage in many areas, as well as losing a ton of roaming coverage. The confusing part of operating two completely incompatible networks is educating customers (and employees!) about the network differences - back in the AT&T TDMA/GSM fiasco, now with Sprint/Nextel, and perhaps with a future "T-Sprint", you have the problems of separate coverage maps, perhaps separate rate-plans, etc. depending on equipment chosen. How do you (easily) explain to a customer that his CDMA phone works in East Cupcake, Nebraska, but his wife's GSM phone on the same family plan can't? Or why your buddy's T-Mo phone works all the way up and down Route 66, but yours cuts out completely between exits 7 and 17? Hybrid GSM/CDMA phones would be an answer, but like with old AT&T, that adds to confusion, and limits phone selection vs. other carriers ("why do you only sell these two phones that work on your whole map? ALL of Verizon's and AT&T's phones work on theirs...") Like I said- it wouldn't be easy or pretty, but long term it might make sense- after the 700 MHz auction, T-Mo, and to a lesser extent, Sprint, are very "spectrally challenged" compared to Verizon and AT&T, limiting future capacity. Together Sprint and T-Mo can be a strong third player, while separately they're probably always going to be marginal sideline players, subsisting on whatever market share slips out of Verizon's and AT&T's fingers. |
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