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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / T-Mobile / August 2004

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What's in your bill?

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P T Wang - 16 Jul 2004 04:54 GMT
1. What is T-mobile's final monthly charge for a typical $29.99 plan in your
place? Do you think whether its hidden fees are more or less than other
providers?

2. Is there a fixed date for the billing cycle?
Dean - 16 Jul 2004 14:12 GMT
>1. What is T-mobile's final monthly charge for a typical $29.99 plan in your
>place? Do you think whether its hidden fees are more or less than other
>providers?

For me, $34.95, with $0.25 of that being text messages (I don't use
much).

>2. Is there a fixed date for the billing cycle?

the 26th is the last day of the period each month, then the bill for
me is due by the 22nd usually.
--
http://ripperd.com
email: dean (at) the above domain
Todd Allcock - 17 Jul 2004 08:33 GMT
> 1. What is T-mobile's final monthly charge for a typical $29.99 plan in your
> place?

In my area, Denver, phone taxes are relatively low.  My $44.98 plan is
just under $50.

> Do you think whether its hidden fees are more or less than other
> providers?

The fees aren't "hidden".  All carriers charge you for state and local
taxes, Federal USF, etc.  The only variable I'm aware of is the
"regulatory programs fee" which supposedly represents the carrier's
costs for various federal required programs like WLNP.  T-Mo charges
86-cents, Cingular gets over a buck, and I think AT&T charges $2.


> 2. Is there a fixed date for the billing cycle?

No.  The day you activate your account is day 1.  My wife's and my
phones have different billing dates.
MS - 29 Aug 2004 06:54 GMT
High here in Los Angeles area. My 39.99 plan plus 2.99 T-Zones (42.98 total)
ends up being about $55 total.

I wondered if some of that was padding by T-Mo, but since some of you have
much lower additional charges, it probably does have something to do with
local taxes. (Or, some states have stronger laws prohibiting such padding!)

>> 1. What is T-mobile's final monthly charge for a typical $29.99 plan in
>> your
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> No.  The day you activate your account is day 1.  My wife's and my
> phones have different billing dates.
Joseph - 29 Aug 2004 16:53 GMT
>High here in Los Angeles area. My 39.99 plan plus 2.99 T-Zones (42.98 total)
>ends up being about $55 total.
>
>I wondered if some of that was padding by T-Mo, but since some of you have
>much lower additional charges, it probably does have something to do with
>local taxes. (Or, some states have stronger laws prohibiting such padding!)

Unless you have *proof* that they are padding charges you are just
stating an opinion not based in fact.  If they are padding charges
there are laws that will penalize any company that does that.  Charges
are different in different localities depending on the tax rate and
the entities that bill the telcos for service.  There are places where
they ding you for federal, state, county and city taxes.  In addition
they ding you for state 911, county 911, and other federally mandated
charges such as to contribute to a fund for rural access, etc. etc.
etc.  It will make a great deal of difference where you are as to what
taxes and fees you are assessed.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
FJG - 29 Aug 2004 17:32 GMT
Read your bill. Its detailed and you can also see details online.

> High here in Los Angeles area. My 39.99 plan plus 2.99 T-Zones (42.98 total)
> ends up being about $55 total.
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> > No.  The day you activate your account is day 1.  My wife's and my
> > phones have different billing dates.
I have a life - 29 Aug 2004 18:31 GMT
> High here in Los Angeles area. My 39.99 plan plus 2.99 T-Zones (42.98 total)
> ends up being about $55 total.
>
> I wondered if some of that was padding by T-Mo, but since some of you have
> much lower additional charges, it probably does have something to do with
> local taxes. (Or, some states have stronger laws prohibiting such padding!)

First off, EVERY business passes costs of doing business to customer? That
is part of doing business. The cost of that GM car includes all kinds of
costs and charges. No, the customer doesn?t see the breakdown of charges
such as shipping costs for the plastic bumper from the subcontractor to the
assembly plant. But the customer does pay for it in the overall cost.

In the airline business, you have standard rates. If the cost of fuel goes
beyond a certain point, they pass on a fuel surcharge. If you land at a
specific airport that requires certain other fees or charges, this is
usually passed on in part to the passengers arriving.

I had to use a taxicab last night. Guess what? I got charged a $. 30 fuel
surcharge.

Now, least anyone choose to jump on me how T-Mobile snuck this in or hides
it?

Everyone here who is T-Mobile customer has read your Terms and Conditons
which you received when you started service, correct?

Everyone here who is ?upset? or ?concerned? about this checks your bill
every month to see what you are paying for and how much, correct?

Then according to your contract with T-Mobile (not to be confused with the
?Contract? you agree to for discounts or promotional plans or features that
would invoke an early termination fee) you agree to pay what ever fee or
charge T-Mobile decides they need or want to a.ses, including the specific
charges for FCC or other government mandates.

You agree to dispute or bring it to T-Mobile attention for any possible
correction, waiver, or explanation of any such charge within 60 days of
charge.

And this means if you have been charged the fee/charge for in excess of 2
bill cycles and get 3rd bill, you agreed by default that charges are
legitimate.

Yes, I pay these charges and all as well.

Here are the sections from Terms and Conditions, direct from
www.T-Mobile.Com that explain the ability to charge these fees and charges:

(Underlined/Bold/Italic for emphasis)

Section 4.
Changes to the Agreement or Charges. We may change or increase the charges
for Service, Other Services, or any other charges at any time. However, if
we: (a) increase the charges for a Service and you would be charged a
cancellation or other fee to cancel that Service, or (b) we modify a
material term of our Agreement with you and the modification would be
materially adverse to you, we will notify you of the increase or
modification (as provided in Sec. 22) and you can cancel the affected
Service without paying the cancellation or other fee (which is your only
remedy) by following the cancellation instructions in the notice. If you do
not cancel the Service by following the instructions in the notice, then you
agree to the increase or modification, even if you paid for Service in
advance. If the notice does not say how long you have to cancel, then it is
within 14 days after the date of the notice. If we increase charges for
Service or Other Services to which no cancellation or other fee to cancel
service applies (e.g., use of directory assistance), we will notify you of
the increase, but you will still be responsible for any cancellation fee
applicable to any Services you may have if you cancel Service.

13.
Billing and Charges. You authorize us to verify your creditworthiness with a
credit-reporting agency at any time you have an outstanding balance. You
agree to pay in full each month all charges for Service or Other Services
(whether provided by us or a third party) under the Agreement and you remain
liable for payment even if a third party agrees to pay all or part of your
charges. Service charges may include, without limit, charges for calls,
messages (read or unread, solicited or unsolicited), images, sounds and data
that are processed through your Unit or through any Number, IP address or
e-mail address assigned to or authorized by you; toll charges, long distance
charges, additional or differently-calculated charges assessed by another
service provider for calls, messages, images, sounds and data that are sent
from or received by your Unit when you are outside our local calling area
("roaming" charges), landline access charges (directory assistance, etc.);
and additional services or features that you use. Roaming and other call
rating (such as time of call) depend on the location of the site
transmitting the call, not on the location of the caller. Billing of roaming
charges and minutes of use or Services may be delayed or applied against
included minutes or Services in subsequent billing cycles, which may cause
you to exceed your allocated minutes or Services in a particular billing
cycle. You will be charged for Service and other features, on a monthly
billing cycle basis. We may require payment before your due date if we are
concerned about your ability to pay us. Unused minutes or other allotments
(e.g., text messages, data transmission) from any rate plans or features do
not carry over to subsequent billing cycles and are forever forfeit. We may
change your billing cycle at any time. Partial minutes used are rounded up
and charged, or deducted from any allocated minutes, as full minutes; calls
and sessions are measured from the time the Network begins to process the
call (before the phone rings or the call is answered) through its
termination of the call. For purposes of time or day rating, an entire call
is rated from when the call starts. For each call there may be additional
charges including without limit: (a) airtime; (b) tolls; (c) roaming; (d)
Taxes and Fees, (e) features (such as web access, text messages and
voicemail) and (f) services (such as operator or directory assistance and
calling card use). You will be charged for more than one call for certain
features consisting of multiple inbound or outbound calls (such as call
forwarding, call waiting, certain voicemail retrieval and conference
calling). Any Taxes and Fees will be added to your charges as provided in
Sec. 14. You agree not to rely for billing purposes on indicators on your
Unit, such as the roaming and call time indicators, which may be inaccurate.
By using our service, you agree that time is of the essence for payment.
Therefore, you must pay in full by the due date (or after any grace period
required by law) on your monthly invoice. If we do not receive payment in
full, by the due date, your payment is past due. Unless prohibited by law,
if your payment is past due, you agree we may charge you 1.5% or $5 per
month (or portion of a month), whichever is greater, on any past due
balances until paid, subject to the highest amount permitted by law. This
late fee may be assessed regardless of the status of any dispute you may
have with the charges on your invoice.
If you believe your bill contains an incorrect charge, you have 60 days from
the date of the first bill that contains the charge to notify us or you
waive your right to that charge. Please contact Customer Care at
www.t-mobile.com, (800) 937-8997 or 611 from your Unit so that we can review
your account. If you accept a credit to resolve an issue, you agree the
issue is fully resolved. We may require you to describe the dispute in
writing. Any written communications concerning charges must be sent to:
T-Mobile Consumer Relations, PO Box 37380, Albuquerque, NM 87176-7380. If we
determine that you owe some or all of the amount in dispute, that amount
will be added to any current charges and must be paid by the date shown on
your bill. If we accept late or partial payments or payments marked "Paid in
Full" or similar notations, it will not waive any of our rights to collect
all amounts that you owe us and it will not be an accord and satisfaction.
We may charge you a returned check fee of up to $20 or such amount as may be
permitted by law for any check returned for insufficient funds and/or we may
stop accepting check payments from you.

14.
Taxes and Fees. We invoice you for taxes, fees and other charges (e.g.
sales, use, excise, public utility and other taxes) levied by or remitted
directly to federal, state or local authorities, or foreign governments
imposed on you or us as a result of providing the Service, your Unit or
Other Services ("Taxes and Fees"). We will determine, in our reasonable
discretion, the Taxes and Fees you are responsible to pay and the amount of
those Taxes and Fees, which may change or increase at any time without
notice. If you claim a tax exemption, you must provide us with a valid tax
exempt document. Tax exemption only applies to Taxes and Fees incurred after
the date we receive the tax exempt document (you won't receive credit for
Taxes and Fees you've already paid). We are required to use the residential
or business street address you provided, which must be within our licensed
service area, to determine certain Taxes and Fees. If you give us an address
(such as a PO box) that is not a recognized street address, you will be
assigned a default location for Taxes and Fees calculation, which may result
in a higher or lower charge for certain Taxes and Fees and you have 60 days
from the date of the first bill that contains disputed Taxes and Fees to
notify us or you waive your right to dispute those Taxes and Fees.

We may also bill you for: a) a regulatory and administrative fee to recover
costs related to federal and state mandates, including without limit fees or
costs related to E-911, local number portability and number pooling (the
amount or method of calculation may change at any time without notice to
you) and b) Federal Universal Service Funds (FUSF). The regulatory and
administrative fee and FUSF are not taxes or government required charges. We
charge the FUSF based on a percentage of your wireless service charges. A
contribution factor provided by the Federal Communications Commission
(FCC)(which may change without notice) is one factor used to calculate the
percentage. We may impose the regulatory & administrative fee whether or not
all or some services are used, or available to you, or in your location.
MS - 29 Aug 2004 20:33 GMT
> First off, EVERY business passes costs of doing business to customer. That
> is part of doing business.

Yes, of course, that is obvious. A business has to recover their costs and
make a profit as well.

However, they can be honest about it or not. If in fact, T-Mo is padding its
income with some of the extra add-on charges (and I'm not saying they are,
just surprised that these charges add up to more than 20% of the original
charge), then wouldn't it be more honest, if they need more income to cover
their costs, to charge more for the service, rather than advertising one
price, and charging more through add-ons? (Again, I'm not saying they are
doing that.)

Such "padding" is often done by businesses. For instance, so-called
"shipping and handling" charges. These are often much higher than the actual
shipping costs of the merchant. To me, that is "padding"--they advertise the
product at one price, but then charge more (and on many web sites you don't
find out how much is being charged for "S&H" until the very last second of
placing the order) hidden as something else. Although frequently done, I
consider that dishonest.

So no, I don't accept your argument that if there were such "padding", it is
OK because a business has to recover their costs. Of course they have to
recover their costs and make a profit,  but it can be done honestly or
dishonestly. Advertising one price while actually charging more through
"add-ons", is IMO dishonest, although it is frequently done.

Once more, I'm not accusing T-Mo of doing this, but just taking exception
with what seems to be a justification of such practices.
I have a life - 29 Aug 2004 23:12 GMT
Take your TMobile bill and show me one single charge that is "padding"

Your service is what ever you pay for the price plan you are on...

Take a look at my cable/tv/phone bill... My service is not what I actually
pay... There are numerous other charges on it in addition to what I was told
would be my "service"

Get a traffic ticket lately? Bet your state has a list for any specific
offense and it sets fine of say X dollars... Bet you don't get out of Court
for X dollars.... Your going to get victims fund, EMS training fund, etc
added on..

My point in my posting was not that they don't charge additional fees or
charges...

It showed that every TMobile customer agrees to a. pay these charges if
TMobile decides they corporately need to and b. to dispute the in accordance
with your Terms and Conditions you agreed to when you started your service

And on that point, this isn't the "contract" most people refer to or think
they have for renewing after discount handset or such... That is your
commitment to stay for 12 months or pay ETF... This is the agreement you
agree to by signing papers when establish service, and maintain service for
indefinite period...

Many of these "padding" charges are different for various parts of country
and are not determinable until your bill is produced, so even the store reps
cant tell you exact bill, neither can CC...

Again, it is all covered in the papers you sign, and as I understand almost
all carriers, big or small require...

> > First off, EVERY business passes costs of doing business to customer. That
> > is part of doing business.
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> Once more, I'm not accusing T-Mo of doing this, but just taking exception
> with what seems to be a justification of such practices.
 
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