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Cellular Phone Forum / Country Specific / UK Group / February 2005

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Incorrect billing increments on Orange roaming charges

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Nicholas F Hodder - 26 Feb 2005 19:33 GMT
On a number of occasions, I've noticed that Orange have billed me or my wife
for outgoing roaming calls, not by the second, but rounded up to the next 4
seconds, 30 seconds or 60 seconds etc.  This happens when Orange say on
their web site for the network concerned "Our partner network [network name]
in [country] charges calls per second".

Before Orange's standardised roaming charges were introduced in 2001, the
"partner network" would determine all outgoing call charges, and they would
simply bill Orange for the charge, which would appear in GBP on the Orange
customer's bill.  Now that Orange sets the per-minute rate but the partner
network still sets the billing increment, who calculates the charge for a
particular call?  Orange or the partner network?

I would guess that it is in fact Orange that calculates the call charge,
since Orange presumes to know the billing increment of every partner
network.  Furthermore, the partner network would not necessarily know
Orange's per-minute rates, nor would it operate in GBP, so it seems unlikely
that the partner network would have any role in the calculation of the call
charge that appears on an Orange customer's bill.  Perhaps though, the
partner network passes two call durations to Orange - actual duration and
billed duration.  Does anyone know for sure how this works?  In other words,
who is to blame for these errors?
Gari P - 26 Feb 2005 20:03 GMT
> On a number of occasions, I've noticed that Orange have billed me or my
> wife for outgoing roaming calls, not by the second, but rounded up to the
> next 4 seconds, 30 seconds or 60 seconds etc.  This happens when Orange
> say on their web site for the network concerned "Our partner network
> [network name] in [country] charges calls per second".

[snipped]

Most foreign networks do bill by the second, but a lot have a minimum
charge. I used to check up on the Orange site and would quite often read
"Our partner network [NAME] in [COUNTRY] charges by the second with a
minimum charge of X seconds. I would guess this has been the case here.

Were they long (duration) calls?

G
Gari P - 26 Feb 2005 21:03 GMT
>> On a number of occasions, I've noticed that Orange have billed me or my
>> wife for outgoing roaming calls, not by the second, but rounded up to the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Were they long (duration) calls?

Following up to myself ... but I checked the Orange website to see if this
is still the case, and purely as an example found:

     voice calls

           Although Orange calls are normally charged by the second, our
partner network Bouygues Telecom in France charges calls in 15 second units
Jon - 27 Feb 2005 13:28 GMT
Nicholas F Hodder reckoned that...
> Does anyone know for sure how this works?  In other words,
> who is to blame for these errors?

Foreign networks supply Orange the CDR info, eg call time initiated,
call duration, number dialled, bearer code (typically Voice - Line 1).

It's Orange who turn minutes and seconds into pounds and pence.

Which partner networks are you disputing the billing increment with?
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Nicholas F Hodder - 27 Feb 2005 15:08 GMT
> Foreign networks supply Orange the CDR info, eg call time initiated,
> call duration, number dialled, bearer code (typically Voice - Line 1).

Does the foreign network supply both an actual duration and a billed
duration?  For example, a call may have an actual duration of 1:05 minutes,
but a billed duration of 1:30 minutes.

> It's Orange who turn minutes and seconds into pounds and pence.

That's what I thought.

> Which partner networks are you disputing the billing increment with?

This has so far happened in:

Cyprus (CYTA) - 4 second increments instead of 1 second
Spain (Movistar) - 60 second increments instead of 30 seconds
Ireland (O2) - 30 second increments instead of 1 second
Jon - 28 Feb 2005 07:31 GMT
Nicholas F Hodder reckoned that...
> > Which partner networks are you disputing the billing increment with?
>
> This has so far happened in:
>
> Cyprus (CYTA) - 4 second increments instead of 1 second

CYTA bill for the first 20 seconds and then after 20s it's per-second.

> Spain (Movistar) - 60 second increments instead of 30 seconds

First 60 seconds as one block, thereafter its 30 second increments.

> Ireland (O2) - 30 second increments instead of 1 second

Should definitely be per-seconds all the way.
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Nicholas F Hodder - 28 Feb 2005 13:23 GMT
> Nicholas F Hodder reckoned that...
>> > Which partner networks are you disputing the billing increment with?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> CYTA bill for the first 20 seconds and then after 20s it's per-second.

Says who?  It's simply per second according to
http://www.orange.co.uk/cgi-bin/international/network.pl?tariff=pgt&sp=ed50&navS
el=1&network=33


>> Spain (Movistar) - 60 second increments instead of 30 seconds
>
> First 60 seconds as one block, thereafter its 30 second increments.

Says who?  It's simply 30 second increments according to
http://www.orange.co.uk/cgi-bin/international/network.pl?tariff=pgt&sp=ed50&navS
el=1&network=9


If Orange are advertising one price on their web site, but then charging
another price, then they have committed an offence under Section 20 of the
Consumer Protection Act 1987.
 
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