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Cellular Phone Forum / Country Specific / UK Group / January 2006What records do networks keep on texts?
A friend of mine has been accused of sending text messages from his Virgin PAYG phone that he didn't send. It's bad enough for the Police to be involved and it would be helpful to know if the network keep details of the texts. My first thoughts are that they are unlikely to keep the content of the texts but might keep a record of the fact that a text was sent from a certain phone at a certain time. Is that correct? Also, would there be a record of which number any message was sent to? TIA for any advice. Rob > A friend of mine has been accused of sending text messages from his > Virgin PAYG phone that he didn't send. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > TIA for any advice. I think you will find that VM will have complete records of every and all texts sent from that number. There have been plenty of cases where police have been provided with detailed information held by network operators on all aspects of usage including records showing the phone status, location updates, camped-on cell etc etc. Is your friend certain that his phone has not been in someone else's possession, or left where someone else could use it? If it turns out that the records show it was his SIM card and IMEI that originated these texts then he will need to be able to demonstrate that someone else actually sent them.  SignatureBrian Morrison please observe reply-to address [snip] >I think you will find that VM will have complete records of every and >all texts sent from that number. There have been plenty of cases where [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >texts then he will need to be able to demonstrate that someone else >actually sent them. Thanks for that. It would be great if they kept all the details. Not sure how long they might keep them for though. Do you have any idea? It seems unlikely they will keep the content of the message (that would be ideal if they did), but at least if we can ask the Police to get 'envelope' details then that would be something. At the moment, he has a situation were someone has made an allegation to the Police and the only evidence is that they walked into the Police station and 'showed' the counter officer the text on their mobile. The office duly noted that there appeared to be a text from my friend and wrote down what it said. However, my understanding is that you can make a handset show pretty much whatever you want it to do and certainly appear to receive a text message from someone else. The solicitors involved are also troubled by the fact that the desk officer then handed the phone back to the complainant, when they really ought to have kept the handset as evidence and had it sent to some expert to determine what was really on it. Naturally, the records that Virgin might keep will carry much more weight, particularly if it can be proved that a text was or was not sent at a particular time. Cheers. > [snip] >> I think you will find that VM will have complete records of every and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Thanks for that. It would be great if they kept all the details. Not > sure how long they might keep them for though. Do you have any idea? I would be surprised if they don't have the complete data for everything ever sent or received on their network, some networks definitely do. But other than that maybe a minimum of two years would be realistic. > It seems unlikely they will keep the content of the message (that > would be ideal if they did), but at least if we can ask the Police to > get 'envelope' details then that would be something. They will have absolutely everything, but they won't part with it without a warrant or similar document. > At the moment, he has a situation were someone has made an allegation > to the Police and the only evidence is that they walked into the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > much whatever you want it to do and certainly appear to receive a text > message from someone else. There are undoubtedly ways of doing that. > The solicitors involved are also troubled by the fact that the desk > officer then handed the phone back to the complainant, when they > really ought to have kept the handset as evidence and had it sent to > some expert to determine what was really on it. Maybe, but they would be able to get that data from the complainant's network operator. So no need to keep the phone, at least for a minor offence (which this seems to be). > Naturally, the records that Virgin might keep will carry much more > weight, particularly if it can be proved that a text was or was not > sent at a particular time. That should be possible, and if your friend is truly innocent he should insist upon proper investigation using independent records. I don't know how difficult it would be to get the police to take this route though, I suppose it depends on how determined he is to stand on his dignity. SignatureBrian Morrison please observe reply-to address > [snip] >> >>I think you will find that VM will have complete records of every and >>all texts sent from that number. There have been plenty of cases where >>police have been provided with detailed information held by network <snip> > It seems unlikely they will keep the content of the message (that > would be ideal if they did), but at least if we can ask the Police to > get 'envelope' details then that would be something. The volume of text messages is not huge. Sat 20m texting phones in the UK, 1000 texts/year. 20 billion a year*160 bytes is only 20 hard disks a year. >At the moment, he has a situation were someone has made an allegation >to the Police and the only evidence is that they walked into the >Police station and 'showed' the counter officer the text on their >mobile. The office duly noted that there appeared to be a text from >my friend and wrote down what it said. That can be faked. The network's records can't, though. SignatureIain the out-of-date hairydog guide to mobile phones http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html Browse now while stocks last! >>At the moment, he has a situation were someone has made an allegation >>to the Police and the only evidence is that they walked into the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > That can be faked. The network's records can't, though. "can't nearly as easily", rather than just can't. > Thanks for that. It would be great if they kept all the details. Not > sure how long they might keep them for though. Do you have any idea? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > much whatever you want it to do and certainly appear to receive a text > message from someone else. ...but the originating network, ie: your friend's mobile and sim card, will be logged by both networks involved. They *do* keep records of text-bodies, they're only 160 characters, that's nothing, even with the thousands sent, the systems the mobile phone companies use can store these no bother. So, if he sent something, it *will* be logged. >A friend of mine has been accused of sending text messages from his > Virgin PAYG phone that he didn't send. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > TIA for any advice. > Rob The network keeps records for about 5 years of ALL text messages (full content of each by the way), ALL calls to and from a phone and which IMEI numbers are matched to which mobile numbers - it is all cross referenced so stolen mobiles are easy to spot. Companies refuse to take action as it means loss of revenue. Your friend would have had his mobile taken by police and sent to one of the authorised companies so it could also be inspected. Information like this is NOT disclosed to or available to people working for the company or they might misuse it. It IS available to police during a criminal investigation after they obtain a Production Order and serve it on the mobile company. They will supply the info requested without a problem, seen it loads of times. They even supply data stating which cell was used at each end of the call and the areas. So it is quite comprehensive. If your mate has done something wrong they will find out, if not then the other person should be prosecuted. The police would only have approached your friend if they already had evidence, so it's not looking good! If there was no evidence then he wouldn't have even heard from the police. The only exception is when someone of the rank of Chief Constable makes a request, no production order is required, but there must be a good reason such as life or death. [snip] >The network keeps records for about 5 years of ALL text messages (full >content of each by the way), ALL calls to and from a phone and which IMEI [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >request, no production order is required, but there must be a good reason >such as life or death. This is excellent information John and very comprehensive. I think it will be just what he wants to hear so thanks very much for your help. Rob >>A friend of mine has been accused of sending text messages from his >>Virgin PAYG phone that he didn't send. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Information like this is NOT disclosed to or available to people working for > the company or they might misuse it. Someone working for a network operator CAN view text messages being sent. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/11/27/sms_security_risks_highlighted_by/ "Nourse obtained proof of his girlfriends' infidelity by persuading two friends, employees at O2, to intercept her text messages and pass them on to him." D > A friend of mine has been accused of sending text messages from his > Virgin PAYG phone that he didn't send. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > TIA for any advice. > Rob http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/03/text_punk/ Marcus >> A friend of mine has been accused of sending text messages from his >> Virgin PAYG phone that he didn't send. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Marcus It's a scary world we live in - and I don't mean because of the terrorists. Do you think I will now have the Police around to my door in half an hour? >It's a scary world we live in - and I don't mean because of the >terrorists. Quite so. I'm quite a laid back kind of guy about most things but I'm increasingly concerned about the direction all this monitoring and control is heading. >Do you think I will now have the Police around to my door in half an >hour? I doubt it'll be that quick. Perhaps in a few weeks someone with a tenuous link to you might get woken in their beds at 5am. They might even get shot. SignaturePeter >> Do you think I will now have the Police around to my door in half an >> hour? > I doubt it'll be that quick. Perhaps in a few weeks someone with a > tenuous link to you might get woken in their beds at 5am. They might > even get shot. Only if they are asleep next to their girlfriend, naked and unarmed. SignatureBrian Morrison please observe reply-to address |
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