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Cellular Phone Forum / Country Specific / UK Group / October 2006Whoops.. Don't forget to put the clocks back
Don't forget to put the clocks back before you go to bed on Saturday night! > Don't forget to put the clocks back before you go to bed on Saturday > night! I heard on the radio this morning, that some organisations (inc RoSPA), want us to put the clocks back one hour forward of GMT in winter and two hours forward of GMT in summer. We'll then come into line with Europe. RoSPA reckons that it'll save 1,000s of lives and after an experiement in the late 60's they reckon they proved the point. Anybody remember when this experiment happened? I hate getting up and going out to work in the dark, and if the clocks stay put one hour ahead of GMT for winter, that means it won't be daylight until about 9am. Won't it then be the case that all that will happen is we'll end up having more people killed in the dark mornings, rather than the dark nights? I came back from Seville, Spain at the end of September, and I thought how bizarre it was that the locals were getting up and going to work/school in the pitch black and it didn't get light until around 9am. What was even stranger was that it was hot weather too - poor little English man is not used to getting up in the dark and it being hot. Very contradictory. >> Don't forget to put the clocks back before you go to bed on Saturday >> night! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the late 60's they reckon they proved the point. Anybody remember when > this experiment happened? i remember when it happened in the 60s. we were all given reflective arm-bands as it was dark when we left school at the end of the day. >>> Don't forget to put the clocks back before you go to bed on Saturday >>> night! [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > we were all given reflective arm-bands as it was dark when we left school > at the end of the day. My local primary school has issued all the kids with small high visibility yellow coats for when the leave and go to school. They look like a hoard of council workers now, lol.  SignatureNiel H http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Snowdon-Computers http://www.ebayfaq.co.uk/ Thus spaketh Niel Humphreys: >>>> Don't forget to put the clocks back before you go to bed on >>>> Saturday night! [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > visibility yellow coats for when the leave and go to school. They > look like a hoard of council workers now, lol. My kids were given reflective arm bands a couple of years ago by the school, we also buy reflective patches and sew onto their coats. On 28/10/2006 at 17:55:17 Niel Humphreys wrote : > They look like a hoard of council workers now, lol. ROTFLMAO, so do they stand about doing f.ck all for 8 hours? ;) SignatureP~K It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames. - Harry Hill [ | http://toolhaus.org/ | http://www.goofbay.com | ] > On 28/10/2006 at 17:55:17 Niel Humphreys wrote : >> They look like a hoard of council workers now, lol. > > ROTFLMAO, so do they stand about doing f.ck all for 8 hours? ;) Envy is an ugly thing. On 28/10/2006 at 23:14:03 Godin wrote : > Envy is an ugly thing. Your _are_ the local council worker a.i.c.m.f.p. :) SignatureP~K It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames. - Harry Hill [ | http://toolhaus.org/ | http://www.goofbay.com | ] >i remember when it happened in the 60s. >we were all given reflective arm-bands as it was dark when we left >school at the end of the day. Indeed, all these numpties who want various changes seem to forget there are only so many hours of daylight in winter, what you gain at one end of the day you lose at the other. Mike SignatureMichael Swift We do not regard Englishmen as foreigners. Kirkheaton We look on them only as rather mad Norwegians. Yorkshire Halvard Lange > > i remember when it happened in the 60s. > > we were all given reflective arm-bands as it was dark [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > winter, what you gain at one end of the day you lose at > the other. This is what I keep trying to tell them. That "extra" hour they want in the evening is there in the morning while they're lazing in bed..! Get up, you lazy buggers..!! Ivor Michael Swift said: > >i remember when it happened in the 60s. > >we were all given reflective arm-bands as it was dark when we left [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > are only so many hours of daylight in winter, what you gain at one end > of the day you lose at the other. It's just that many of us would like it to get dark at 4:30pm instead of 3:30pm on the shorter days and at 6:00pm instead of 5:00pm on the run up and run down as this would at least give the illusion of more day light. In the morning, dark is dark is dark is dark and it matters not one jot as most kids get driven to school these days and few of us have cows we have to get up and milk. And an extra hour of light in the evening in the summer would be pretty cool too! [snip] > It's just that many of us would like it to get dark at > 4:30pm instead of 3:30pm on the shorter days and at > 6:00pm instead of 5:00pm on the run up and run down as > this would at least give the illusion of more day light. So get up earlier instead of sleeping the daylight away..! > In the morning, dark is dark is dark is dark and it > matters not one jot as most kids get driven to school > these days and few of us have cows we have to get up and > milk. Like I said, get up earlier and start work/school at 8 instead of 9. Then when you finish it will still be light. What do you think people did before clocks..?! > And an extra hour of light in the evening in the summer > would be pretty cool too! So don't sleep it away in the morning..! Ivor Thus spaketh Ivor Jones: > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Like I said, get up earlier and start work/school at 8 instead of 9. > Then when you finish it will still be light. All well and good spouting such nonsense, unless everyone demanded the school to open an hour earlier and the teachers also wanting to switch hours, people aren't going to be able to change the times, the only way is by enough people campaigning to switch to CET/CEST. > What do you think people did before clocks..?! Is of no importance to todays society. >> And an extra hour of light in the evening in the summer >> would be pretty cool too! > > So don't sleep it away in the morning..! All well and good getting up an hour earlier when our clock haven't changed, as everything else will still be running on the current time, so may not be open an hour earlier. Come on, you don't normally spout nonsense. > Ivor > All well and good spouting such nonsense, unless everyone demanded the > school to open an hour earlier and the teachers also wanting to switch > hours, people aren't going to be able to change the times, the only way > is by enough people campaigning to switch to CET/CEST. What? If we switched to CET then kids will go to school in the dark. It'll still be dark at 8.30am in virtually the whole country in December. At the moment it is daylight in most parts of the country when kids go to and leave school. -- Andy Thus spaketh Andy Pandy: >> All well and good spouting such nonsense, unless everyone demanded >> the school to open an hour earlier and the teachers also wanting to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > December. At the moment it is daylight in most parts of the country > when kids go to and leave school. Kids normally go to school pretty quickly no messing around in the morning, when they come home from school they dawdle. > >> All well and good spouting such nonsense, unless everyone demanded > >> the school to open an hour earlier and the teachers also wanting to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Kids normally go to school pretty quickly no messing around in the > morning, when they come home from school they dawdle. So what's your point? I'd rather my kids went both ways in daylight, as they do now, whether they dawdle or not. They leave at 8.30am, they are back at 3.50pm. It's daylight throught the year in most parts of the country between those times. It wouldn't be if we switched to CET. -- Andy Andy Pandy said: > > >> All well and good spouting such nonsense, unless everyone demanded > > >> the school to open an hour earlier and the teachers also wanting to [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > They leave at 8.30am, they are back at 3.50pm. It's daylight throught the year in > most parts of the country between those times. It wouldn't be if we switched to CET. I am sure you would prefer it to be always daylight, wouldn't we all, but it seems more accidents happen at night than in the morning and the main reason for the current clock changing regime is the objection from the Scots when attempts are make to update it, not because it "safe" for children. And you live in a funny part of the UK if it is daylight, all year round, at 3:50pm as I live a mile from the sea on the south coast and it is dark by 3:30pm here on the shorter days! > Andy Pandy said: > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > I am sure you would prefer it to be always daylight, wouldn't we all, Er, no actually. > but it seems more accidents happen at night than in the morning and the > main reason for the current clock changing regime is the objection from > the Scots when attempts are make to update it, not because it "safe" for > children. The reason for the "current clock changing regime" is to get more evening daylight in the summer, it's got bugger all to do with winter, or the Scots. Why do you think it's called "daylight saving" time? > And you live in a funny part of the UK if it is daylight, all year > round, at 3:50pm as I live a mile from the sea on the south coast and it > is dark by 3:30pm here on the shorter days! Complete bullshit - nowhere on the south coast of England does the sun ever set before 3.30pm. In any case it would have to set by about 3pm for it to be dark at 3.30pm, so you're way out. Check your clocks this winter! -- Andy Andy Pandy said: > > All well and good spouting such nonsense, unless everyone demanded the > > school to open an hour earlier and the teachers also wanting to switch [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > dark at 8.30am in virtually the whole country in December. At the moment it is > daylight in most parts of the country when kids go to and leave school. This argument about kids going to school in the dark is so out of date I am amazed that some people still feel the need to drag it up to defend a system that is pretty crap for almost everyone in modern times and actually affects some people's health. If your children really walk to school alone, along unlit roads in the pitch dark, then buy them a reflective jacket, some always-on lights and a torch. > Andy Pandy said: > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > system that is pretty crap for almost everyone in modern times and > actually affects some people's health. What "system" are you on about, FFS? The clock changing is to do with summer, not winter. CET is not our natural timezone, GMT is. -- Andy On 28/10/2006 at 21:57:53 Bert wrote : > If your children really walk to school alone, along unlit roads in the > pitch dark, then buy them a reflective jacket, some always-on lights and > a torch. Way tooooo expensive, would candles do? ;) SignatureP~K It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames. - Harry Hill [ | http://toolhaus.org/ | http://www.goofbay.com | ] > Thus spaketh Ivor Jones: > > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > going to be able to change the times, the only way is by > enough people campaigning to switch to CET/CEST. You don't get what I'm saying, do you..? Who tells us to change the clocks twice a year..? Who issues the instruction ..? The government, right..? So instead of telling people to change the settings on physical devices, tell them to change their hours of work by an hour. Same result, less hassle with clocks..! > > What do you think people did before clocks..?! > > Is of no importance to todays society. But it has relevance. > > > And an extra hour of light in the evening in the > > > summer would be pretty cool too! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > running on the current time, so may not be open an hour > earlier. No they won't..!! This is the whole point..! If *everyone* changed their hours at the same time of year instead of changing their clocks, the end result would be the same, but with less hassle of mucking about with timepieces. > Come on, you don't normally spout nonsense. Read it again, it's no more nonsense than buggering about with clocks. Ivor >> Thus spaketh Ivor Jones: >> > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > settings on physical devices, tell them to change their hours of > work by an hour. Same result, less hassle with clocks..! Surely, though, the current system would be cheaper.... on your proprosed system, bus, coach and train companies would have to re-issue timetables twice a year to account for hour shift of the morning/evening peak periods. Even then, I don't think the governemt has any right to dictate opening hours of shops/offices etc apart from Schools, and (possibly) some other local government services, whether it be directly or via local government. Even so, I suspect there would be much simplification in this, instead of opening an hour earler in winter, I suspect many shops/offices would still open at the same time (eg 9am) and then close at the same time... so what does that get you ? Anyway, shouldn't your suggestion be the other way around.... ie we keep GMT all year long (ie no switch to BST in March), and then just tell people to go to school/work 1 hour later April to October. >> > What do you think people did before clocks..?! >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > clocks, the end result would be the same, but with less hassle of > mucking about with timepieces. But they wouldn't, and who would make them do it anyway. It may well just be a psychological thing, but going to work at 8am feels alot better than going to work at 7am regardless of whether the clocks change or not, and I suspect many workers (where possible) would probably want to keep the same "hours" without having to shift 1 way or the other... at least with an actual clock change, going to work at 8 feels the same in both summer and winter. [snip] > Anyway, shouldn't your suggestion be the other way > around.... ie we keep GMT all year long (ie no switch to > BST in March), and then just tell people to go to > school/work 1 hour later April to October. Actually that's exactly what I meant, sorry if I wasn't clear. It can work, Arizona in the US for example don't observe daylight savings time. Although it can prove a little troublesome if you live on one side of the state line where they don't change the clocks but work on the other side where they do ;-) > > No they won't..!! This is the whole point..! If > > *everyone* changed their hours at the same time of year [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > But they wouldn't, and who would make them do it anyway. Who makes them change the clocks..? Ivor > > Anyway, shouldn't your suggestion be the other way > > around.... ie we keep GMT all year long (ie no switch to > > BST in March), and then just tell people to go to > > school/work 1 hour later April to October. I think you meant earlier. > Actually that's exactly what I meant, sorry if I wasn't clear. > > It can work, Arizona in the US for example don't observe daylight savings > time. Although it can prove a little troublesome if you live on one side > of the state line where they don't change the clocks but work on the other > side where they do ;-) That's partly because it's quite far south, daylight saving is unnecessary for places closer to the equator. Similarly in Australia the nothern states don't have daylight saving, the southern states do. -- Andy Ivor Jones said: > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > So get up earlier instead of sleeping the daylight away..! When I get up at the moment it is dark let alone in a week's time so your cunning plan is not quite as cunning as it would first seem. > > In the morning, dark is dark is dark is dark and it > > matters not one jot as most kids get driven to school [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Like I said, get up earlier and start work/school at 8 instead of 9. Then > when you finish it will still be light. I already start before 8:00am and it is still dark when I leave for work. > What do you think people did before clocks..?! > > > And an extra hour of light in the evening in the summer > > would be pretty cool too! > > So don't sleep it away in the morning..! You must get up really late if you think it is already daylight at getting up time! Lazy git. :-p On 28/10/2006 at 21:51:13 Bert wrote : > When I get up at the moment it is dark let alone in a week's time so > your cunning plan is not quite as cunning as it would first seem. Your _are_ Capt. Edmund Blackadder a.i.c.m.f.p. ;) SignatureP~K It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames. - Harry Hill [ | http://toolhaus.org/ | http://www.goofbay.com | ] On 28/10/2006 at 19:20:10 Michael Swift wrote : > Indeed, all these numpties who want various changes seem to forget there > are only so many hours of daylight in winter, what you gain at one end > of the day you lose at the other. Up north, it helps as it would be dark until 9:00am if they did not change. But don't let facts get in the way of childrens safety ;) ;) SignatureP~K It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames. - Harry Hill [ | http://toolhaus.org/ | http://www.goofbay.com | ] > On 28/10/2006 at 19:20:10 Michael Swift wrote : > > Indeed, all these numpties who want various changes seem to forget there [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Up north, it helps as it would be dark until 9:00am if they did not > change. But don't let facts get in the way of childrens safety ;) ;) 'Won't someone *please* think of the childrun' SignatureSteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # > > On 28/10/2006 at 19:20:10 Michael Swift wrote : > > > Indeed, all these numpties who want various changes seem to forget there [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > 'Won't someone *please* think of the childrun' School hours could be shorter in the winter when there is less daylight. This could me balanced by longer hours at school at other times. -- John Youles Norwich England UK >> > On 28/10/2006 at 19:20:10 Michael Swift wrote : >> > > Indeed, all these numpties who want various changes seem to forget there [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >School hours could be shorter in the winter when there is less daylight. This >could me balanced by longer hours at school at other times. Exactly! If this is all about children's safety then the schools would have a vested interest in changing their hours. There wouldn't be any need for clocks to be put backwards and forwards and there'd be no need for businesses to change unless they saw an advantage in it. SignaturePeter Saxton from London peter@petersaxton.co.uk > >> > > Indeed, all these numpties who want various changes seem to forget there > >> > > are only so many hours of daylight in winter, what you gain at one end [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Exactly! If this is all about children's safety then the schools would > have a vested interest in changing their hours. Well it isn't. > There wouldn't be any need for clocks to be put backwards and forwards > and there'd be no need for businesses to change unless they saw an > advantage in it. The reason for putting the clocks forwards and backwards is because if we didn't, in June the sun would rise at about 3.45am and set at about 8.20pm (London times). Since most people are in bed at 4am and most aren't at 9pm, it was thought wise to move that extra hour of daylight from the morning to the evening. The clue is in "daylight saving time". Obviously we could all just get up an hour earlier in the summer and go to bed an hour earlier. -- Andy |The reason for putting the clocks forwards and backwards is because if we didn't, in |June the sun would rise at about 3.45am and set at about 8.20pm (London times). [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] |Obviously we could all just get up an hour earlier in the summer and go to bed an |hour earlier. Which worked fine for 100 or 35 millennia, when sun time was all we had. SignatureDave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> Google Groups is IME the *worst* method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies. >> >> > > Indeed, all these numpties who want various changes seem to forget there >> >> > > are only so many hours of daylight in winter, what you gain at one end [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >Obviously we could all just get up an hour earlier in the summer and go to bed an >hour earlier. I suppose the reason for moving the clocsk is because most people don't do much before going to work in the morning but they do in the evenings. SignaturePeter Saxton from London peter@petersaxton.co.uk > On 28/10/2006 at 19:20:10 Michael Swift wrote : > > Indeed, all these numpties who want various changes seem to forget there [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Up north, it helps as it would be dark until 9:00am if they did not > change. But don't let facts get in the way of childrens safety ;) ;) The change is to give extra daylight *in the summer*, if they didn't change it would just get darker earlier in the summer. Winter would stay the same. -- Andy On 28/10/2006 at 21:07:19 Andy Pandy wrote : > The change is to give extra daylight *in the summer*, if they didn't change > it would > just get darker earlier in the summer. Winter would stay the same. Zaktley, they are prating about with the wrong end of the stick ! SignatureP~K It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames. - Harry Hill [ entanet/UKFSN - Office Max 45 ] > I came back from Seville, Spain at the end of September, and I thought how > bizarre it was that the locals were getting up and going to work/school in > the pitch black and it didn't get light until around 9am. Um, I think your clock was a bit out. I was in Spain last week, and it got light about eight am. Ali > some organisations (inc RoSPA), want us to put the clocks back > one hour forward of GMT in winter and two hours forward of GMT > in summer. We'll then come into line with Europe. "Some organisations" need to f.ck right off then. SignatureLordy.UK >> some organisations (inc RoSPA), want us to put the clocks back >> one hour forward of GMT in winter and two hours forward of GMT >> in summer. We'll then come into line with Europe. > > "Some organisations" need to f.ck right off then. Absolutely, someone hit the nail on the head earlier when they refered to it as CET. Another move by the Lefties to intergrate us into Europe, there is nothing wrong with GMT & BST. > Absolutely, someone hit the nail on the head earlier when they refered to > it as CET. Another move by the Lefties to intergrate us into Europe, there > is nothing wrong with GMT & BST. Give us back our 11 days! SignatureTony W My e-mail address has no hyphen - but please don't use it, reply to the group. > > Absolutely, someone hit the nail on the head earlier when they refered to > > it as CET. Another move by the Lefties to intergrate us into Europe, there > > is nothing wrong with GMT & BST. > > Give us back our 11 days! Quite right - workers were paid by the DAY but rents were collected by the MONTH or QUARTER - so the workers were diddled out 11 days of rent. The bankers however insisted on keeping the 11 days, which is why the financial year runs to April 5th rather than Lady Day. -- John Youles Norwich England UK >> Don't forget to put the clocks back before you go to bed on Saturday >> night! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >60's they reckon they proved the point. Anybody remember when this >experiment happened? When they did the experiment, most schoolchildren walked or cycled to school, and car usage was drastically lower. The results would be totally invalid today as most people drive, even to get kids to school. So stats based on the number of pedestrians injured would be meaningless. SignatureMark McIntyre > When they did the experiment, most schoolchildren walked or cycled to > school, and car usage was drastically lower. The results would be > totally invalid today as most people drive, even to get kids to > school. So stats based on the number of pedestrians injured would be > meaningless. Injuries? Not if I had my way with 4 be 4 users. You lot who drive your kids to school should be rounded up & shot. Big girls bloused nancy boys are the offspring you lot are producing. > > Don't forget to put the clocks back before you go to bed on Saturday > > night! > I hate getting up and going out to work in the dark, and if the clocks stay > put one hour ahead of GMT for winter, that means it won't be daylight until > about 9am. Won't it then be the case that all that will happen is we'll end > up having more people killed in the dark mornings, rather than the dark > nights? Quite right. It's much better if they are killed on a dark night. Dark mornings are just not the same. Moving the clocks twice a year is a nonsense. A relic of muddled thinking, initiated during the war to allow farm workers to work later in daylight. It was a barmy idea then, it is a hilariously stupid one now. | Don't forget to put the clocks back before you go to bed on Saturday night! > Moving the clocks twice a year is a nonsense. A relic of muddled thinking, > initiated during the war to allow farm workers to work later in daylight. > It > was a barmy idea then, it is a hilariously stupid one now. Its the same argument these days for not doing it - builders, farmers, milkmen and the Scots all want to keep the current system. because they reckon they would losed out a lot if we went CET. > > Moving the clocks twice a year is a nonsense. A relic > > of muddled thinking, initiated during the war to allow [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the current system. because they reckon they would losed > out a lot if we went CET. What none of them seem to have the brain cells to work out is that the number of hours of available daylight in any given day has bugger all to do with what a clock says..! They lie in bed for an extra hour, sleeping the daylight away, then complain that little Johnny has to walk home from school in the dark. Why don't people just get up an hour earlier and go to bed an hour earlier, start work/school etc. at 8 instead of 9 etc., problem solved. Ivor > What none of them seem to have the brain cells to work out is that the > number of hours of available daylight in any given day has bugger all to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Why don't people just get up an hour earlier and go to bed an hour > earlier, start work/school etc. at 8 instead of 9 etc., problem solved. If lessons don't start until 9am and then the child wants to leave at 2pm instead of 3pm, I'm sure the local authority education police might have something to say about it. However, not really an issue in most of the schools in my area, because the majority start at 8.20am and finish around 2.30pm. Teachers must love only having to work half days. > > What none of them seem to have the brain cells to work > > out is that the number of hours of available daylight [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > authority education police might have something to say > about it. So start lessons at 8, that's my whole point. > However, not really an issue in most of the schools in my > area, because the majority start at 8.20am and finish > around 2.30pm. Teachers must love only having to work > half days. They do anyway, don't they..?! <g> Ivor > Moving the clocks twice a year is a nonsense. A relic of muddled thinking, > initiated during the war to allow farm workers to work later in daylight. It > was a barmy idea then, it is a hilariously stupid one now. > > | Don't forget to put the clocks back before you go to bed on Saturday > night! Long time lurker - We live ON the 0 degree meridian - i.e. our LOCAL time IS GMT (UT/UTC/Zulu - what ever) so the sun crosses the meridian (due south) at or around noon when we are on GMT. i.e. daylight is evenly spread round noon (middle of the day!!) So leave the bugger alone. quit mucking with it - it give me jet lag twice a year and no nice holiday either! As I say we are at (or around) 0 degrees so lets have real local time - sun is due south at noon - i.e. GMT There was a time when Portugal - west of us - was on CET and that was STUPID, talk about dark mornings, light nights!!even worse in the summer The nomad - voting for any party that will leave the bloody clocks on GMT 12 months of a year! > Don't forget to put the clocks back before you go to bed on Saturday night! the arguments for keeping present system are to the benefit of orkney farmers not us in the south of gods country so why dont the feckin jocks in feckin jockland have their hour extra and we keep to European time f.ck them anyway they are no friends of ours andrew Thus spaketh andrew: >> Don't forget to put the clocks back before you go to bed on Saturday >> night! [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > andrew I'd rather have an extra hour of light in the evening, I'm all for moving to CET/CEST. As for Scotland there is no reason that they couldn't if they wished remain on the current time, I have nothing against Scottish people as they are human just like most of us, plus some of my family are Scottish, also I never have any problems when I'm up there in the cold, dark extremes of Scotland. SignatureItems for sale: www.dodgy-dealer.co.uk > Thus spaketh andrew: >>> Don't forget to put the clocks back before you go to bed on Saturday [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > some of my family are Scottish, also I never have any problems when I'm > up there in the cold, dark extremes of Scotland. They wanted devolution so let them have it, stop all Scottish MP's voting on English bills (that'd stuff Uncle Gordon up next year) & let them have their own timezone if they wanted. Thus spaketh Phaeton: >> Thus spaketh andrew: >>>> Don't forget to put the clocks back before you go to bed on [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > voting on English bills (that'd stuff Uncle Gordon up next year) & let > them have their own timezone if they wanted. I have no problems with devolution, when I chat to my brother who spent most of his life in Scotland there are some things like defence they are happy we are all to be a part of, but for most other things I agree I see no reason why N.Ireland, Scotland Wales and England can't vote / run the individual countries their own way within the EU. SignatureItems for sale: www.dodgy-dealer.co.uk >They wanted devolution so let them have it, stop all Scottish MP's >voting on English bills (that'd stuff Uncle Gordon up next year) & let >them have their own timezone if they wanted. What has this comment to do with the subject of this thread. Keep your prejudices off public forums where they are not relevant. SignatureHugh Janus Constipation is the thief of time, but diaorrehia waits for no man!! >> They wanted devolution so let them have it, stop all Scottish MP's >> voting on English bills (that'd stuff Uncle Gordon up next year) & let >> them have their own timezone if they wanted. > > What has this comment to do with the subject of this thread. Keep your > prejudices off public forums where they are not relevant. It was in a reply to post about one of the reasons that we messed with the time zones was to benefit Outer Hebrides farmer. As to keeping my views not prejudices off public forums, as far as I was aware we are supposed to have free speech in this country currently, until George Bush tells us otherwise. So I will continue to post as I feel fit Thank you. > It was in a reply to post about one of the reasons that we messed with > the time zones was to benefit Outer Hebrides farmer. Well it wasn't. The reason we *don't* mess with timezones may be because of them. -- Andy On 28/10/2006 at 19:01:37 Phaeton wrote : > They wanted devolution so let them have it, stop all Scottish MP's voting on > English bills (that'd stuff Uncle Gordon up next year) & let them have their > own timezone if they wanted. Stop talking shite! SignatureP~K It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames. - Harry Hill [ | http://toolhaus.org/ | http://www.goofbay.com | ] > On 28/10/2006 at 19:01:37 Phaeton wrote : >> They wanted devolution so let them have it, stop all Scottish MP's >> voting on English bills (that'd stuff Uncle Gordon up next year) & let >> them have their own timezone if they wanted. > > Stop talking shite! Please elaborate which bit & why in your view this is shite? On 29/10/2006 at 15:18:58 Phaeton wrote : > Please elaborate which bit & why in your view this is shite? Most of us did not want devolution and most of think Alex Salmon is an arse ! SignatureP~K It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames. - Harry Hill [ | http://toolhaus.org/ | http://www.goofbay.com | ] >Most of us did not want devolution and most of think Alex Salmon is an >arse ! I'll see your arse Salmon with our arse Blair and raise you the arse Cameron, I'm afraid *all* politicians are arses, just look at the expenses recently published, pigs, snouts and troughs spring readily to mind. Now the bastards want to levy 'green taxes', my arse, they just want to keep the common man under the jackboot, poor and subservient, where's Guy Fawkes when you need him? Mike SignatureMichael Swift We do not regard Englishmen as foreigners. Kirkheaton We look on them only as rather mad Norwegians. Yorkshire Halvard Lange >I'll see your arse Salmon with our arse Blair and raise you the arse >Cameron, I'm afraid *all* politicians are arses, just look at the >expenses recently published, pigs, snouts and troughs spring readily to >mind. I'll trump (ha! Ha! Trump?) your arses with the Chief Arsitecht Bush! SignatureHugh Janus Constipation is the thief of time, but diaorrehia waits for no man!! [snip] > I'd rather have an extra hour of light in the evening, > I'm all for moving to CET/CEST. As for Scotland there is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > family are Scottish, also I never have any problems when > I'm up there in the cold, dark extremes of Scotland. But you don't *get* an "extra" hour of light..! The amount of daylight in any given day is not determined by a clock..! That "extra" hour you want in the evening is there, but it's in the morning, while you're lying in bed. Get up earlier and go to bed earlier; start school/work at 8 instead of 9 or whatever it is. Problem solved. Think about it; what did people do before clocks were invented..? They got up when the sun rose and went to bed when it set. Ivor Thus spaketh Ivor Jones: > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > But you don't *get* an "extra" hour of light..! The amount of > daylight in any given day is not determined by a clock..! I want the extra hour an the evening not in the morning, which was what I said, I fully understand the amount of light in any 23hr 56 minutes will be the same whether our clocks are on GMT,BST, CET or CEST. That's not the point, because we live our time around a clock I'd rather have the clocks moved to provider more light at night than in the morning. > That "extra" hour you want in the evening is there, but it's in the > morning, while you're lying in bed. Get up earlier and go to bed > earlier; start school/work at 8 instead of 9 or whatever it is. > Problem solved. I come in from work at 05:00 during the summer this is light, during the winter it is dark, so to me moving the clocks forward and hour will have little affect on my coming home from work. > Think about it; what did people do before clocks were invented..? > They got up when the sun rose and went to bed when it set. But clocks have been invented, and one or two people aren't going to be able to change their working pattern, maybe for those who have flex-time maybe, bt for those in a 09:00 - 17:00 job, I'm sure their boss is going to be happy if the come in at a different time, the place may not even be open. Do you think my kids school is going to allow my kids to turn up and start school work at 07:50 ? Come on keep it real! That is just a crazy thing to say, and pointless thing to say. > Ivor I usually sleep around 11:00 / 12:00 until 18:00 / 19:00 as my body-clock is 12 hours out due to normally working 21:00 - 05:00, so for my days off it would be great (mainly during the summer) to have light evenings. SignatureItems for sale: www.dodgy-dealer.co.uk > I want the extra hour an the evening not in the morning, > which was what I said, I fully understand the amount of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > have the clocks moved to provider more light at night > than in the morning. So change working hours not clocks. > > That "extra" hour you want in the evening is there, but > > it's in the morning, while you're lying in bed. Get up [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > clocks forward and hour will have little affect on my > coming home from work. I work shifts as well, but I don't see the difference between working 8 to 4 instead of 9 to 5. It's not that great a leap, surely..? > > Think about it; what did people do before clocks were > > invented..? They got up when the sun rose and went to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > happy if the come in at a different time, the place may > not even be open. So change working hours. > Do you think my kids school is going to allow my kids to > turn up and start school work at 07:50 ? Come on keep it > real! It is real. Instead of the government saying change the clocks twice a year, they could just say change working hours instead. > That is just a crazy thing to say, and pointless thing to > say. It's no crazier than adjusting every clock in the country twice a year. Ivor Thus spaketh Ivor Jones: >> I want the extra hour an the evening not in the morning, >> which was what I said, I fully understand the amount of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > So change working hours not clocks. I can't, that my hours for my Job, it's not one or two weeks at those hours, it's every week of the year. >>> That "extra" hour you want in the evening is there, but >>> it's in the morning, while you're lying in bed. Get up [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I work shifts as well, but I don't see the difference between working > 8 to 4 instead of 9 to 5. It's not that great a leap, surely..? But I have to work 21:00 - 05:00. That's my job. The computers I have to work on are already listed by my manager who works 09:00 - 17:00, but even if I was to turn up at 20:00 I can't swipe out until 04:45 at the earliest and security are told not to allow anyone off site until 04:45 at the earliest. We get paid for working extra hours past our usual hours, but not for hours before, so even if I worked for two hours before 21:00 I wouldn't be paid for them, and even if I finished at 03:00 I'd have to stay until 05:00. Sometimes when the swipe machine stops working and you have good security on you can leave early, but you don't know before hand if the machines are going to be faulty. Yes, one hour difference isn't much of a difference but for most people work won't allow then to alter their work pattern by one hour, all well and good saying work from 08:00 until 16:00 but pointless when work only allows you to work 09:00 - 17:00 >>> Think about it; what did people do before clocks were >>> invented..? They got up when the sun rose and went to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > So change working hours. Pointless remark, if your place of work only allows you to work 09:00 - 17:00 you ain't going to be able to work 08:00 - 16:00 >> Do you think my kids school is going to allow my kids to >> turn up and start school work at 07:50 ? Come on keep it [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > It's no crazier than adjusting every clock in the country twice a > year. The rest of Europe change their clocks at the same time also, so it's not just this country that is crazy. Yes it would be nice for people to be able to alter their hours, but that's not going to happen, so changing the clocks is the best method. Can you really see a business for example advertising their hours as maybe 08:00, maybe 08:30 maybe 09:00, maybe 09:30 until maybe 16:00, maybe 16:30, maybe 17:00 all depends on when workers come in to work. There does need to be some set hours of business for many businesses if they can't run 24/7. > Ivor > Thus spaketh Ivor Jones: > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I can't, that my hours for my Job, it's not one or two > weeks at those hours, it's every week of the year. But your job terms can be changed so that you work 8 to 4 in the winter instead of 9 to 5. > > > > That "extra" hour you want in the evening is there, > > > > but it's in the morning, while you're lying in bed. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > But I have to work 21:00 - 05:00. That's my job. So your hours are changed from 2000 - 0400. > The > computers I have to work on are already listed by my > manager who works 09:00 - 17:00, but even if I was to > turn up at 20:00 I can't swipe out until 04:45 at the > earliest and security are told not to allow anyone off > site until 04:45 at the earliest. Computers can be reprogrammed. > We get paid for > working extra hours past our usual hours, but not for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > you can leave early, but you don't know before hand if > the machines are going to be faulty. So your contract could be changed so that the hours listed for your work are 1 hour earlier in the winter. > Yes, one hour difference isn't much of a difference but > for most people work won't allow then to alter their work [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > to work 09:00 - 17:00 you ain't going to be able to work > 08:00 - 16:00 Your workplace wouldn't have a choice. It would be imposed by government in the same way you are told you must change your clocks. > > > Do you think my kids school is going to allow my kids > > > to turn up and start school work at 07:50 ? Come on [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > The rest of Europe change their clocks at the same time > also, so it's not just this country that is crazy. They don't have to any more than we have to. > Yes it would be nice for people to be able to alter their > hours, but that's not going to happen, so changing the > clocks is the best method. I don't agree. > Can you really see a business for example advertising > their hours as maybe 08:00, maybe 08:30 maybe 09:00, > maybe 09:30 until maybe 16:00, maybe 16:30, maybe 17:00 > all depends on when workers come in to work. > There does need to be some set hours of business for many > businesses if they can't run 24/7. So set them to one hour earlier start/finish in the winter. Ivor > > Can you really see a business for example advertising > > their hours as maybe 08:00, maybe 08:30 maybe 09:00, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > So set them to one hour earlier start/finish in the winter. How is that 'easier' than just changing the clock time? Just because you have a job that makes it a PITA doesn't mean it would be easier / better for 99% of the population to change working hours. SignatureSteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # > > > Can you really see a business for example advertising > > > their hours as maybe 08:00, maybe 08:30 maybe 09:00, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > mean it would be easier / better for 99% of the > population to change working hours. Why is it difficult..? Just set the alarm an hour earlier. It's no different to working shifts. Ivor > > How is that 'easier' than just changing the clock time? > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Why is it difficult..? Just set the alarm an hour earlier. It's no > different to working shifts. It's not that simple, is it? All shops would have to change the opening hours signs, websites would also have to be changed to reflect the 'winter' opening hours, bus / train timetables would have to be reprinted with summer and winter hours etc. Changing the time on clocks is much easier. SignatureSteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo' www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC # >> > How is that 'easier' than just changing the clock time? >> > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Changing the time on clocks is much easier. Swap the winter signs to summer ones. Have websites showing both winter and summer times. Change bus/train timetables twice a year. It would keep them more up to date. SignaturePeter Saxton from London peter@petersaxton.co.uk Thus spaketh Ivor Jones: >> Thus spaketh Ivor Jones: >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > But your job terms can be changed so that you work 8 to 4 in the > winter instead of 9 to 5. But they won't, as much as I'd may like them to, they ain't going to change. Even if all us workers decided we wanted them to change the hours, they aren't going to those are the hours and they ain't changing. >>>>> That "extra" hour you want in the evening is there, >>>>> but it's in the morning, while you're lying in bed. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Computers can be reprogrammed. Yes they can, but they has nothing to do with the place I work changing their working hours. >> We get paid for >> working extra hours past our usual hours, but not for [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > So your contract could be changed so that the hours listed for your > work are 1 hour earlier in the winter. But that ain't goint to happen! >> Yes, one hour difference isn't much of a difference but >> for most people work won't allow then to alter their work [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > Ivor > Your workplace wouldn't have a choice. It > would be imposed by government in the same > way you are told you must change your clocks. What are you expecting? That the government will say that all businesses' opening hours *must* change between 9am - 5pm and 8am - 4pm? What if they want to open for 10 hours per day instead of only 8? What if they want to extend their opening hours by one sometime? What if they then want to reduce their hours by one? What if, hehe, they extend & then reduce on consecutive days (just after the govt has told them to switch hours in spring/autumn)?! On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 19:02:02 GMT, a particular chimpanzee named "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx___spam@trapped___hotmail.co.uk> randomly hit the keyboard and produced: >I want the extra hour an the evening not in the morning, which was what >I said, I fully understand the amount of light in any 23hr 56 minutes >will be the same whether our clocks are on GMT,BST, CET or CEST. That could be why you need an extra hour in the evening. Your clock is running 4 minutes faster than everyone elses. SignatureHugo Nebula "If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this, just how far from the pack have you strayed?" Ivor Jones said: > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > But you don't *get* an "extra" hour of light..! The amount of daylight in > any given day is not determined by a clock..! Surely you realise people are referring to an extra hour of light at the end of the clock marked day rather than at the beginning and that they do actually appreciate that fiddling with this marking of the passage of time does not actually create or destroy day light. :-) > That "extra" hour you want in the evening is there, but it's in the > morning, while you're lying in bed. Get up earlier and go to bed earlier; > start school/work at 8 instead of 9 or whatever it is. Problem solved. In the morning few of us can make good use of it so it is wasted. > Think about it; what did people do before clocks were invented..? They got > up when the sun rose and went to bed when it set. I think you are confusing people having clocks with them having access to artificial light. > Ivor Jones said: > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > that fiddling with this marking of the passage of time > does not actually create or destroy day light. :-) Do I have to spell it out..?! They are complaining that their kids are coming home from school in the dark. So instead of fiddling with countless clocks, change school/office hours from 9-5 to 8-4 or whatever they are. Get up earlier and go to bed earlier. Simple. > > That "extra" hour you want in the evening is there, but > > it's in the morning, while you're lying in bed. Get up [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > In the morning few of us can make good use of it so it is > wasted. If working hours were changed instead of clocks it wouldn't be wasted, would it..? > > Think about it; what did people do before clocks were > > invented..? They got up when the sun rose and went to > > bed when it set. > > I think you are confusing people having clocks with them > having access to artificial light. Not at all, read what I said again. Ivor Thus spaketh Ivor Jones: >> Ivor Jones said: >>> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > If working hours were changed instead of clocks it wouldn't be wasted, > would it..? Easier for the clock to be changed than getting all businesses and schools to change hours. >>> Think about it; what did people do before clocks were >>> invented..? They got up when the sun rose and went to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ivor [snip] > Easier for the clock to be changed than getting all > businesses and schools to change hours. Not at all. Easier in fact as no clocks have to be changed. Ivor Ivor Jones said: > "Bert" <Albert@coldmail.com.invalid> wrote in message > > Surely you realise people are referring to an extra hour > > of light at the end of the clock marked day rather than [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Do I have to spell it out..?! Only for yourself to giggle at later. > They are complaining that their kids are > coming home from school in the dark. "They" do, do "they"? > So instead of fiddling with countless > clocks, change school/office hours from 9-5 to 8-4 or whatever they are. > Get up earlier and go to bed earlier. Simple. Simple if you have super-human abilities to change school and business hours but otherwise we will just have to stick with the achievable, which is to alter the clocks. > > > That "extra" hour you want in the evening is there, but > > > it's in the morning, while you're lying in bed. Get up [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > If working hours were changed instead of clocks it wouldn't be wasted, > would it..? Ah, so you *do* believe in super-human abilities. > > > Think about it; what did people do before clocks were > > > invented..? They got up when the sun rose and went to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Not at all, read what I said again. You mean after I get off the floor laughing? Not sure if my heart can take it! > Ivor Jones said: > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Only for yourself to giggle at later. Or you, but it still holds true. > > They are complaining that their kids are > > coming home from school in the dark. > > "They" do, do "they"? Apparently so, or changing clocks wouldn't be "necessary" would it..?! > > So instead of fiddling with countless > > clocks, change school/office hours from 9-5 to 8-4 or [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and business hours but otherwise we will just have to > stick with the achievable, which is to alter the clocks. It is achievable. Who tells you to change clocks..? They could equally well tell you to change hours. > > > > That "extra" hour you want in the evening is there, > > > > but it's in the morning, while you're lying in bed. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Ah, so you *do* believe in super-human abilities. If it's superhuman to get up in the morning. Well perhaps it is for some people. > > > > Think about it; what did people do before clocks > > > > were invented..? They got up when the sun rose and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > You mean after I get off the floor laughing? Not sure if > my heart can take it! That's your problem, surely..? Ivor Ivor Jones said: > > Ivor Jones said: > > > So instead of fiddling with countless > > > clocks, change school/office hours from 9-5 to 8-4 or [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > It is achievable. Who tells you to change clocks..? They could equally > well tell you to change hours. But government has no control over the hours a business operates and suggesting that they can "simply" be told to open up an hour earlier or later is simplistic in the extreme. > > > > > That "extra" hour you want in the evening is there, > > > > > but it's in the morning, while you're lying in bed. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > If it's superhuman to get up in the morning. Well perhaps it is for some > people. People who get up, in the dark, at 6 or 7 in the morning are hardly lazy, but I am guessing you do actually know that and oddly believe that that if you say something frequently enough people might start believing it. > > > > > Think about it; what did people do before clocks > > > > > were invented..? They got up when the sun rose and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > That's your problem, surely..? If you consider that finding a comedian funny to be problem then I suppose you are correct. >the arguments for keeping present system are to the benefit of orkney >farmers [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >and we keep to European time >f.ck them anyway they are no friends of ours I take it you live in the soft sarf, Northern England has similar problems to Scotland. Mike SignatureMichael Swift We do not regard Englishmen as foreigners. Kirkheaton We look on them only as rather mad Norwegians. Yorkshire Halvard Lange > the arguments for keeping present system are to the benefit of orkney > farmers > not us in the south of gods country ROFL you illiterate twat, what difference will it make to farmers in Orkney? You do realise that changing the clocks won't make any difference to the amount of sunlight don't you? >> the arguments for keeping present system are to the benefit of orkney >> farmers [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >You do realise that changing the clocks won't make any difference to the >amount of sunlight don't you? I've got a better idea. Every day you put the clocks back in the morning and then you put them forward in the afternoon. Either that, or add an hour of daylight at both ends of the day, take away the number you first thought of and everyone's problems are solved. What about giant mirrors all along the Pennines and into the Grampians with teams of slaves to rotate them, or even a 600 mile long silver zeppelin in the sky, constantly moving up and down the country? Or what about giant torches lit by methane from newsgroups. Now there's a thought. Travec. >Or what about giant torches lit by methane from newsgroups. Now there's >a thought. It'd be cheaper to use parliamentary gas, more of it. Mike SignatureMichael Swift We do not regard Englishmen as foreigners. Kirkheaton We look on them only as rather mad Norwegians. Yorkshire Halvard Lange On 28/10/2006 at 18:37:26 andrew wrote : > so why dont the feckin jocks in feckin jockland have their hour extra and > we keep to European time If the darkness was in Londinium it would be sorted out p.d.q. ;) > f.ck them anyway they are no friends of ours Aww, thats a shame, you andy no-mates? SignatureP~K It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames. - Harry Hill [ | http://toolhaus.org/ | http://www.goofbay.com | ] |
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