Cellular Phone Forum / Country Specific / UK Group / February 2008
O2 iPhone tariff improvements
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Simon C - 30 Jan 2008 14:00 GMT <http://www.o2.co.uk/iphone/o2tariffsforiphone>
So it looks like O2 have decided their old iPhone tariffs weren't attractive enough and realised that minutes and texts are more important for most users before worrying about "extras" (inclusive or not) like unlimited data and wi-fi access.
Previous tariffs:
£35 for 200 mins, 200 texts, unlimited data and cloud wi-fi £45 for 600 mins, 500 texts, unlimited data and cloud wi-fi £55 for 1200 mins, 500 texts, unlimited data and cloud wi-fi
New tariffs (as of Feb 1st):
£35 for 600 mins, 500 texts, unlimited data and cloud wi-fi £45 for 1200 mins, 500 texts, unlimited data and cloud wi-fi £75 for 3000 mins, 500 texts, unlimited data and cloud wi-fi
Existing customers will get migrated to the new tariffs automatically by mid-march.
Old £35 get migrated to New £35 Old £45 get migrated to New £45 Old £55 get migrated to New £45
Still have to pay the £269 upfront though which I think will remain a deal-breaker for many as the minimum TCO is unchanged - you just get more for what you pay for now.
I am almost tempted though as my current contract is coming to an end and my existing video iPod is showing signs of old age...
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ChrisM - 30 Jan 2008 14:17 GMT > <http://www.o2.co.uk/iphone/o2tariffsforiphone> > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > I am almost tempted though as my current contract is coming to an end > and my existing video iPod is showing signs of old age... That's almost good value! (Apart from still having to shell out the best part of £300 for the phone of course).
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Simon C - 30 Jan 2008 17:08 GMT >> <http://www.o2.co.uk/iphone/o2tariffsforiphone> >> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > That's almost good value! (Apart from still having to shell out the best > part of £300 for the phone of course). Yeah, considering the unlimited data would otherwise cost £7.50 and the cloud access would be £6.99, the tariffs themselves aren't too bad at all now (assuming those inclusions are of value to you of course).
In fact looking at it now, to get an equivalent deal with an N95 8GB on O2 would cost £99.99 upfront for the £35/month tariff (600 mins + 1000 texts) and would be £50 per month after adding on unlimited data and wifi - which would have a TCO of more than the iPhone! If you didn't want the wifi access then the N95 still comes up as costing nearly the same - even on 3, where the equivalent price plan would be Mix and Match 1100 for £42 a month plus £5 for unlimited data.
Iain - 01 Feb 2008 16:23 GMT > In fact looking at it now, to get an equivalent deal with an N95 8GB on O2 > would cost £99.99 upfront for the £35/month tariff (600 mins + 1000 texts) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > where the equivalent price plan would be Mix and Match 1100 for £42 a month > plus £5 for unlimited data. Yes, but the n95 is a vastly better phone.
BGN - 01 Feb 2008 17:54 GMT >> In fact looking at it now, to get an equivalent deal with an N95 8GB on O2 >> would cost £99.99 upfront for the £35/month tariff (600 mins + 1000 texts) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Yes, but the n95 is a vastly better phone. I agree, it does pretty much everything I require. The iPhone/iPod Touch has a fantastic uncluttered interface, but that's mostly because it doesn't do much.
Start adding features and those little icons soon become pop up menus and they get smaller and smaller to fit everything on the screen meaning it's difficult to use with one's paws.
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DubDriver - 01 Feb 2008 22:35 GMT > Start adding features and those little icons soon become pop up menus > and they get smaller and smaller to fit everything on the screen > meaning it's difficult to use with one's paws. To use Windows terms ... on mine the shortcuts on the desktop stay the same size how ever many applications are added, once that is full the screen can be scrolled to show the next set. Or are you talking about something else?
BGN - 02 Feb 2008 08:13 GMT >> Start adding features and those little icons soon become pop up menus >> and they get smaller and smaller to fit everything on the screen [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >size how ever many applications are added, once that is full the screen can >be scrolled to show the next set. Or are you talking about something else? Take, for example, the old iPod Touch Safari. You had four buttons at the bottom of the screen.
Back, forward, bookmarks, open new screen.
In the new 1.1.3 update there are five buttons taking up the same space:
Back, forward, add bookmark, bookmarks, open new screen.
To accommodate this new button (which weas previously next to the URL navigation at the top of the screen) all of the others were moved closer together meaning that when I press any of the buttons at the bottom of the screen it's more difficult to aim for the one I want.
In addition to this when I hit the + button instead of it adding a bookmark I now get a pop up menu with "Add Bookmark", "Add to Home Screen", "Mail Link to this page" and "Cancel" on it.
What I was saying in my last post is that once someone tries to add more features to a beautifully simple device like the iPod Touch/iPhone then it gets more complicated and it steps back from the simple device it used to be.
When I press 'options' on my n95's web browser the list of things that I can do is so large that I have to scroll up and down to see them all, and some of those items also have submenus which lead to other menus. The iPhone/iPod Touch doesn't have that much functionality which is why it's so simple to use, in a good way. The more features you give it the more complicated it becomes.
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Simon C - 06 Feb 2008 09:15 GMT >> In fact looking at it now, to get an equivalent deal with an N95 8GB on >> O2 would cost £99.99 upfront for the £35/month tariff (600 mins + 1000 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Yes, but the n95 is a vastly better phone. In terms of a list of technical features then quite obviously (though the larger screen, multitouch interface and safari are definite pluses for the iPhone).
The iPhone caters for different users than the N95 though - in a similar way the Nokia 8800s of this world do. Those who aren't interested in all the bells and whistles of the N95 may prefer the simpler layout of the iPhone, the slick interface and the "ooh shiny" factor. You may consider these people to have more money than sense, but basically it just boils down to different people attributing different value to various aspects of a product. You may consider 3G, GPS and a 5MP camera to be more important than a larger screen, twice as many pixels, snazzy interface and chrome finish - some people clearly don't though.
As it turns out my comparison above was quite inaccurate anyway - as I hadn't appreciated that the new non-iPhone tariffs include a bolton for no extra charge for the £35/month and above tariffs - so you could get unlimited data and wifi for just £42/month with the N95 on O2.
BGN - 30 Jan 2008 20:48 GMT >I am almost tempted though as my current contract is coming to an end and my >existing video iPod is showing signs of old age... Hmm, almost reasonable value, but not quite.
iPhone = £269 + £35/mo over 18 months = £899. Then add in the cost of a new battery at about 12 months (which isn't a user replaceable part) that's another £62.29 which gives you a grand total of £961.29 for the duration of the contract.
My Nokia n95 on T-Mobile Flext 35 + web'n'walk currently costs me £35/mo for 900 mins/1800 mixed texts + free weekend calls + £7.50/mo for web'n'walk + £0 for n95 = £765 over 18 months then add on £9.99 for a new battery after about a year and that's a grand total of £775 + whatever size miniSD card you want to plonk in the n95.
That's a £186.29 difference between the above two contracts. Note that an 8Gb iPod Touch costs just £176.24 from ebuyer.com which is what I've got.
I've got an n95 and an iPod Touch already so I've made a profit :o) But *if* o2 had coverage at my home I'd still consider it, but they don't so it's a bit of a no brainer.
Or one could just buy an out-of-the-box unlocked iPhone from France for 300 (£222) and jailbreak it.
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David Kennedy - 31 Jan 2008 08:05 GMT >> I am almost tempted though as my current contract is coming to an end and my >> existing video iPod is showing signs of old age... [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > that an 8Gb iPod Touch costs just £176.24 from ebuyer.com which is > what I've got. Have you thought about residuals? At the end of 18 months, how much is each likely to be worth? I suspect you'll get more for the iphone than the Nokia.
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BGN - 31 Jan 2008 20:06 GMT On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 08:05:37 +0000, David Kennedy <davidkennedy@nospamtodaythanksverymuchforthekindofferyoubastard.invalid> wrote:
>>> I am almost tempted though as my current contract is coming to an end and my >>> existing video iPod is showing signs of old age... [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >each likely to be worth? I suspect you'll get more for the iphone than >the Nokia. Am I likely to get £176.24 less for the n95 than the iPhone?
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David Kennedy - 31 Jan 2008 21:21 GMT > On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 08:05:37 +0000, David Kennedy > <davidkennedy@nospamtodaythanksverymuchforthekindofferyoubastard.invalid> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Am I likely to get £176.24 less for the n95 than the iPhone? Maybe. You didn't take into account a replacement battery for the ipod touch...
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BGN - 31 Jan 2008 21:23 GMT On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:21:26 +0000, David Kennedy <davidkennedy@nospamtodaythanksverymuchforthekindofferyoubastard.invalid> wrote:
>>>> iPhone = £269 + £35/mo over 18 months = £899. Then add in the cost of >>>> a new battery at about 12 months (which isn't a user replaceable part) [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >Maybe. You didn't take into account a replacement battery for the ipod >touch... Ahh. Seeing as I never seem to flog my old phones <glances at Motorola RAZR v3b (BT Fusion "bluephone"), Nokia e61 and a handful of other old bricks> I don't calculate residuals.
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David Kennedy - 31 Jan 2008 22:12 GMT > Ahh. Seeing as I never seem to flog my old phones <glances at > Motorola RAZR v3b (BT Fusion "bluephone"), Nokia e61 and a handful of > other old bricks> I don't calculate residuals. Well, to be honest, most phones are practically worthless after, say, 18 months or so. By the time you pay ebay fees and account for your time you might as well give it to Oxfam.
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R. Mark Clayton - 01 Feb 2008 17:40 GMT SNIP
>> That's a £186.29 difference between the above two contracts. Note >> that an 8Gb iPod Touch costs just £176.24 from ebuyer.com which is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > each likely to be worth? I suspect you'll get more for the iphone than the > Nokia. The iPhone will still be locked to O2 and unlocking ain't easy, whereas the N95 won't be locked if bought on contract.
How much will it cost to add the WiFi and other missing features to the iPhone?
BGN - 01 Feb 2008 17:55 GMT >>> That's a £186.29 difference between the above two contracts. Note >>> that an 8Gb iPod Touch costs just £176.24 from ebuyer.com which is [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >How much will it cost to add the WiFi and other missing features to the >iPhone? A lot in terms of style. The iPhone/iPod Touch are quite heavy due to the glass screen If the iPhone was an inch thick like the n95 then it just wouldn't be the same.
BTW, the iPhone already does WiFi, as does the iPod Touch.
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DubDriver - 01 Feb 2008 22:30 GMT > A lot in terms of style. The iPhone/iPod Touch are quite heavy due to > the glass screen If the iPhone was an inch thick like the n95 then it > just wouldn't be the same. To be precise 20g more than the N95
R. Mark Clayton - 02 Feb 2008 22:56 GMT >>>> That's a £186.29 difference between the above two contracts. Note >>>> that an 8Gb iPod Touch costs just £176.24 from ebuyer.com which is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>> the >>> Nokia. In another group: -
As you can see at the moment they are level pegging
see below
>>The iPhone will still be locked to O2 and unlocking ain't easy, whereas >>the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > BTW, the iPhone already does WiFi, as does the iPod Touch. G3 / GPRS then - it is defintitely missing major functionality. (bet it is slugged s you can't phone out on the Wi-Fi to).
> ELECTRONIC SYSTEMS LIMITED > Registered No. 05659323 [quoted text clipped - 130 lines] > > MANAGEMENT. Gareth - 02 Feb 2008 20:40 GMT > <http://www.o2.co.uk/iphone/o2tariffsforiphone> > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > deal-breaker for many as the minimum TCO is unchanged - you just get more > for what you pay for now. What like MMS and 3G internet access? The iPhone is a load of over hyped bollocks by generally accepted British standards.
The sad fact is that there is only one show in town - Nokia (and arguably the N95).
The iPhone may suit antediluvian Yanks but, personally, I prefer to be kissed before I'm screwed.
Seriously, the pile of sh.t that is iPhone has the capacity to set the basic technological standards back by 5 years if it becomes a mass market phenomenon in the UK. Thankfully it's tied to one overpriced network, a hefty purchase price and a contract only deal. Woe forbid that it comes within the reach of chav culture. If it does I may just have to start using my Philips Savvy again.
Simon C - 06 Feb 2008 09:57 GMT > What like MMS and 3G internet access? The iPhone is a load of over hyped > bollocks by generally accepted British standards. A lot of people couldn't care less about MMS and 3G internet access though. Personally speaking I think I have sent all of about 3 MMS in all my time of having mobile phones - and I'm someone who gets a new phone at least every year (quite often a bit earlier if I'm getting particularly impatient). Is MMS all that relevent anyway when most phones have an email client anyway? And while my past 4 phones (SE W880, BenQ-Simens EF51, SE V800, Nokia 7600) have all been 3G handsets - the only thing I've ever really used the 3G aspect for is faster WAP browsing (and quite often the network coverage meant I dropped back to 2G for that anyway). While the 7600 had no video calling capability (didn't matter at the time as no-one I knew had a 3G phone - and admittedly that was an awful handset anyway), the other three did - and in all that time I have made a grand total of I think 3 video calls, and they were all purely for novelty value. I had no shortage of friends with 3G phones either.
MMS and 3G are even less relevent in the US, which of course the primary market for the iPhone. Even SMS is far less prevalent there than here in the UK (which is probably why the iPhone only recently got round to adding multiple recipient support for them). Would you have been happier if the iPhone simply hadn't been released over here? Clearly some people do want them though - so why not let them have what they want? No-one is forcing you to get an iPhone, and I simply don't understand how you think the iPhone could possibly hinder technological development - especially when it has already caused a major kickstart in touchscreen technology (multitouch is pretty leading edge) and overall interface improvements.
Gareth - 09 Feb 2008 10:54 GMT >> What like MMS and 3G internet access? The iPhone is a load of over hyped >> bollocks by generally accepted British standards. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > total of I think 3 video calls, and they were all purely for novelty > value. I had no shortage of friends with 3G phones either. MMS is about much more than picture messaging - it can be used very effectively for data transfer at no cost to the recipient. MMS costs in the UK are also fairly cheap and, when roaming using say Virgin, it can be a very cheap way of transferring data internationally too. It's odd - in terms of market localisation - that Apple released the iPhone in Europe without MMS functionality. Surely it would be easy to add the feature via a software update?
Arguing away the benefits of 3G access is also a bit strange: most people who use it to transfer/receive data (even web browsing) view 3G access as a very positive thing. Comparison reviews of the N95 and iPhone (using Opera browser on the N95) comment on the clear and significant speed difference which the iPhone isn't able to tap in to. Accessing 5 MB of data on the move (during a train journey) with the N95 is a sinch. With 2G connectivity and the increased risk of time/distance signal drop outs it's more problematic on iPhone. The lack of a decent camera on the iPhone is very poor.
> MMS and 3G are even less relevent in the US, which of course the primary > market for the iPhone. Even SMS is far less prevalent there than here in [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > it has already caused a major kickstart in touchscreen technology > (multitouch is pretty leading edge) and overall interface improvements. Major kickstart in touchscreen technology? Cluttered desktops full of icons don't lend themselves to effective use of a small touchscreen. The iPhone keyboard is a bit of a joke too: every time I've used it I've encountered problems with the iPhone's touch screen location accuracy. The iPhone also looks suspiciously like the Sony PSP (having used an iPhone for 2 weeks I, yesterday, instinctively tried to move an icon around a PSP screen). It's not that innovative - the Viewty, with its 5 mega pixel camera and conventional phone/modem functions - is a much better deal in terms of value for money and innovation. Have you used the Nokia N95? If you have don't you think it allows for a more intuitive and effective use of assorted programs?
Some people would buy an "iTune" comprising Steve Jobs farting in synch, poorly in synch at that, to a Powerbook start-up tone. I mean, sh.t, people pay silly amounts of money for Apple Macs (with very similar processors to those included in top spec Windows PCs available for a fraction of the price).
I think the iPhone is crap (specifically a pile of under specced and over hyped crap compared to N95 or Viewty) but I guess I don't have as much money to waste as most Apple fans surely must have (maybe if I did I would see the light). Still, the vanilla out of the box product does look good - but as soon as you start to add icons to the desktop (or use the "key board") the whole thing shows itself as unwieldy, badly designed and lacking in refinement. The system is also notoriously locked down by Apple to prevent the use of third party software - wouldn't Nokia's approach to Symbian (or Apple's approach to the mainstream Mac OSs) have been more sensible or at least more fair?
Instead of taking the knockout punch that has been swung by clever hackers on the chin (like M$ has been doing for decades) Apple has been content to threaten paying users with bricked devices. The contempt shown by Apple for the French court (interpreting the judgement as referring only to the country code sim lock) is something that would make even M$ proud.
Gareth.
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