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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Verizon / August 2006Keeping your customers in the dark
Oh, it pains me when a company doesn't see fit to keep their front-line employees informed. (It's the same situation at my company.) So I'm out of town with my new LG VX8300, and the mobile web has stopped working. I also notice I'm in an EV-DO area, which isn't the case at home. Since I have a few minutes, I call tech support from a landline, and am pleasantly surprised to be only hold for all of about five seconds. I explain what's going on, and she found and corrected the issue (EV-DO-related) very quickly. While she had me, she asked if I'd like to try out their "V-Pack" for a month free -- unlimited mobile web, videos, and get-it-now traffic. Sure, why not? She reminded me twice to cancel by the end of my month if I didn't want to get charged for future months; I appreciate that. I asked her if she knew when EV-DO would be hitting my area (Albany, NY), and she said it should be "any time now, it's already in north Jersey and spreading." Cool. Well, my month came up a few days ago, so I called up to cancel the V-Pack. He asked why, and I told him because it doesn't work in my home area. (The truth is that I don't see the attraction to watching video in a 1-inch screen, but this explanation was easier. The unlimited airtime for mobile web was the real reason I did the free month.) He processed the cancellation, and while we were waiting for it to go through, I asked him if he knew when Albany would be getting EV-DO. He said he had no idea; they never give him that information. Nice. And what do I see when I get home the VERY NEXT DAY? EV-DO service in Albany. Nice going, Verizon -- by not keeping your people informed, you gave away a huge revenue stream. Wouldn't it have been nice if your employee had known about it, and could have told me, "It should be going live in Albany this week. Do you want to keep the service?" > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > employee had known about it, and could have told me, "It should be going > live in Albany this week. Do you want to keep the service?" While I'm certainly not defending Verizon, or any of the carriers for that matter, isn't it possible that this particular rep slept through the announcement? Notan > While I'm certainly not defending Verizon, or any of the carriers for > that matter, isn't it possible that this particular rep slept through > the announcement? These reps probably all work in a single call center which could be anywhere in the country - or in the world. I doubt that they have daily briefings where they are expected to memorize which areas got new service today. You probably wouldn't know it from the kind of service you get from most call centers, but there is a lot of work going on throughout the call center industry, developing ways to make sure that they have the right information at their fingertips when they need it. One day, they might have software that will cause their display to popup a message saying "Tell the customer that EVDO will be rolled out in his/her area two days from now." In the meantime, there's not much they can do. They have to make a quick decision on the tradeoff - do they put in the extra effort to try to retain this customer by searching for information that might cause him to change his mind, or do they finish the call quickly to keep their calls per hour number at acceptable levels? > "It should be going live in Albany this week. >Do you want to keep the service?" You would have cancelled anyway. You said so. -Frank >Oh, it pains me when a company doesn't see fit to keep their front-line >employees informed. (It's the same situation at my company.) [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >employee had known about it, and could have told me, "It should be going >live in Albany this week. Do you want to keep the service?" Well, there's a number of possibilites. As Notan said, the rep fell asleep during the announcement. Didn't read his e-mail. Just plain zoned when they made the announcement. Another possibility is it's not 'live' yet. Yes, it shows on your phone, but may not be fully 'ready for prime time'. When I was a Nextel indirect dealer, we anxiously awaited cross group Direct Connect (ie being able to direct connect someone in another fleet / group), and nationwide direct connect. Both started working about a day and a half before the 'live' date. Some other people stated it worked a week before the go live date, but only for a period of a hour or so. >>Oh, it pains me when a company doesn't see fit to keep their front-line >>employees informed. (It's the same situation at my company.) [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > Some other people stated it worked a week before the go live date, but > only for a period of a hour or so. I live in Albany and my Account Executive notified me by email that EVDO was available in Buffalo NY and Albany New York on Aug 23, 2006 sure enough I looked at display on my phone and it was there. She also said to do a *228 send and select option 2 to be sure it was to the phone properly. Elector Beavis, I totally agree, i got my new phone when v-cast was the big thing. but it wasn't in the stores that they told me that i could get it free for a month. it was three weeks later when i calle tech support. They asked if i wanted to get it free but it was only for a week becasue the deal was you would get it free with the first month you had your phone. Know that is crappy, wouldn't you say? [Holyhalokingdom u305617] Games in enjoy playing: <a href=http://www.gamestotal.com/>Multiplayer Online Games</a> <a href=http://www.gamestotal.com/>Strategy Games</a><br><a href=http://uc.gamestotal.com/>Unification Wars</a> - <a href=http://uc.gamestotal.com/>Massive Multiplayer Online Games</a><br><a href=http://gc.gamestotal.com/>Galactic Conquest</a> - <a href=http://gc.gamestotal.com/>Strategy Games</a><br><a href=http://www.stephenyong.com/runescape.htm>Runescape</a><br><a href=http://www.stephenyong.com/kingsofchaos.htm>Kings of chaos</a><br> > Well, my month came up a few days ago, so I called up to cancel the > V-Pack. He asked why, and I told him because it doesn't work in my home [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > employee had known about it, and could have told me, "It should be going > live in Albany this week. Do you want to keep the service?" To which your answer would have been "no, I don't see the attraction to watching video on a 1-inch screen," according to what you state. So, how would the outcome have been any different, really?  SignatureE-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply. > Oh, it pains me when a company doesn't see fit to keep their front-line > employees informed. (It's the same situation at my company.) [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > employee had known about it, and could have told me, "It should be going > live in Albany this week. Do you want to keep the service?" Verizon needs an outside management consultant team, specializing in operations, to come in and clean house. Everything about how they deal with customers sucks big time. Yesterday it took me 45 minutes to order a new phone. First the website would not allow me to upgrade, so I called customer service. They explained that for some cockamamie reason the site "remembers" I ordered another phone 2 months ago, and won't let me order a new one. Imagine if Dell or CompUSA operated this way. I order a Dell computer 30 days ago, and the website refuses to sell me another one today. The rep explained that I was eligible to get $100 off plus the web discount (a $50 instant rebate). In the past I was told I could only get one or the other. She could not take my order for the Lg 8300 ($119) but passed me on to the web sales dept. Before doing so she explained that I'd get $100 off, plus the instant web discount, so I would actually *make* $31 on the phone. I was licking my chops. After 10 minutes on hold the line went dead. So I called back and explained my situation. Finally I got someone who was able to take my order, but we were on the phone for nearly 20 minutes!! Of course she asked for my mobile # (which I had just punched in), then she disappeared. When she returned she took my name and SS#, then disappeared again. Then she took my CC and disappeared once more. Again, imagine if a major retailer operated that way. My only conclusion is their margins are so high it doesn't matter that they're so inefficient, and if that is so it means they essentially have no competition. Anyway, once my order was complete I asked what the bottom line was and the rep told me I would get the phone for $53, plus a $50 mail in rebate. "What about the instant $50 web discount?" I asked. "Sorry, you can only get that on the web." "But your $#@#$*(& website doesn't let me order, even though I'm due for an upgrade." "Well then you should have asked for the web sales department." (I had forgotten to do so) "Ok, then connect me to them I want to order through them." "Sorry, it's too late, your order went through." She then explained that for some weird reason my phone would arrive in 10 days. What about the 2 day Fedex delivery? You guessed it, it's only available for Web sales. Haha. So I asked, "Why aren't your sales departments connected?" and she explained that they are, but for reasons only God knows it takes several days to verify my credit card information through customer service, whereas the website does it automatically. Mind you, I have used the exact same credit card to purchase about 20 Verizon phones over the last 8 years. I keep saying this, but imagine -- imagine the state of retail sales in this country if every vendor operated that inefficiently. Somehow Verizon is able to do it and stay in business. Angelo DePalma > <snip> > > I keep saying this, but imagine -- imagine the state of retail sales in this > country if every vendor operated that inefficiently. Somehow Verizon is able > to do it and stay in business. With all due respect, after all that, you still ordered the phone. THAT'S why they're still in business! <g> Notan >> <snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Notan Not exactly, it's the $170 termination fee. IMO since these cell companies are quasi-monopolies, the FCC or FTC should step in and order them to work out a way to eliminate these confiscatory charges and somehow recoup their losses on a phone. Finding the keyboard operational Ange1o DePa1ma entered: >>> <snip> >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > order them to work out a way to eliminate these confiscatory charges > and somehow recoup their losses on a phone. Actually they stay in business with the bells and wistles not the phones. It's the HP printer philosopy. Give away the printer and charge like hell for the ink. In this case it is a deeply discounted phone then the Vcast and Web and roaming and over minute air time. Cellular phone companies are no where near a monopoly. In any major metro area you have 3 or 4 choices. Guess what, they are all the same. The FCC regulates their airwave use and ths FTC isn't going to step in to fix someones price structure unless it is for a non luxury item. i.e. milk. Tech support for any company is a cost center not a profit center. It's how cheaply can we run it without losing too many customers. Phone sales are probably such a small precentage of their income that they don't plow alot of money into it. The world is not the way we want it. It is the way it is. Bob Signature-- Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times www.moondoggiecoffee.com >>> With all due respect, after all that, you still ordered the phone. >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > The world is not the way we want it. It is the way it is. > Bob Did I say they made money from the phones? You are right that they're not monopolies, but the way they price their services and offer limited phones and add-on services, they might as well be. Otherwise prices would come down as they did for telephone service and everything else where there is a lot of competition (cameras, computers, etc). > >>> With all due respect, after all that, you still ordered the phone. > >>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > everything else where there is a lot of competition (cameras, computers, > etc). Actually, I was the one that mentioned the phone... I didn't mean they made a profit on the phone itself, but, rather, by selling the phone, they kept the OP as a customer. Notan In the late 80's, a Motorola 8000 sold for over $3000. Airtime was expensive, close to a buck a minute. At least well over $.50 or more to the very high users. You can now buy a phone for less than $100, (yes maybe subsidized) But, even at full bore retail, there are aren't many phones at $3K. (Those vanity Nokias, etc don't count). Airtime can commonly be had for $.10 - even less. In my book and pretty much anybody else's, this certainly has been pricing that has come WAAAY down. It has currently leveled off because of costs of doing business - fixed costs such as labor, backhaul, site leases and then there is also the continued buildout with the addition of 3G, etc that is not cheap. Still overall, I'd say prices have come way down.... > You are right that they're not monopolies, but the way they price their services and offer limited phones and add-on > services, they might as well be. Otherwise prices would come down as they did for telephone service and everything > else where there is a lot of competition (cameras, computers, etc). > In the late 80's, a Motorola 8000 sold for over $3000. > Airtime was expensive, close to a buck a minute. At least > well over $.50 or more to the very high users. > > You can now buy a phone for less than $100, (yes maybe subsidized) In 1986, hard drives cost $30,000 per gigabyte. Today they're under one dollar per gig. Just the other day a friend bought one for under forty-two cents per gigabyte. When phone prices take a proportionate decline, we'll be watching a free market. Until then we're stuck with the monopolies. SignatureMore abuse of eminent domain! http://www.villagelandgrab.com/ Finding the keyboard operational clifto entered: >> In the late 80's, a Motorola 8000 sold for over $3000. >> Airtime was expensive, close to a buck a minute. At least [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > When phone prices take a proportionate decline, we'll be watching a > free market. Until then we're stuck with the monopolies. I don't know where you get the justification for claiming that cell phone companieas have a monopoly. Round here I could have Verizon, Sprint or T-Mobile tomorrow. Signature-- Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times www.moondoggiecoffee.com > Finding the keyboard operational > clifto entered: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > companieas have a monopoly. Round here I could have Verizon, Sprint or > T-Mobile tomorrow. The cell phone companies are the only ones who can afford to pull off quantity buys of cell phones. SignatureMore abuse of eminent domain! http://www.villagelandgrab.com/ >> In the late 80's, a Motorola 8000 sold for over $3000. >> Airtime was expensive, close to a buck a minute. At least [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > When phone prices take a proportionate decline, we'll be watching a free > market. Until then we're stuck with the monopolies. When you factor in size, cost, and function, storage technology has improved even more than that. Our first hard drive cost $400 for 20 MB, and it was about 4x3x8 inches. Today you can get a 2 GB SD card for $60 that's one-thousandth the size of my original HDD. If you count size x $$/Gb the difference is more like a factor of 700,000. "Nessnet" <richard@nodamnspam.nessnet.com> wrote in > In the late 80's, a Motorola 8000 sold for over $3000. > Airtime was expensive, close to a buck a minute. At least [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Still overall, I'd say prices have come way down.... Ok. In the late 1980s my phone bill was $450-550 per month. Today it's about $40 ($20 for my Sprint landline, $20 for my Lingo VOIP), and I have unlimited calling. Back then I was charged up to 75 cents per minute for calling central NJ from northwestern NJ; today my per-minute charges no longer exist. I currently pay $115/month for VZW, 700 minutes (four phones). $10 of that is for unlimited text/pix messaging for my daughter. That's around 15 cents per minute. That sounds like a good deal but in fact we hardly ever use more than 350 minutes, so we're really paying about 30 cents. I guess prices have come way down, and when you think about the convenience wireless service is a decent deal. But I have not seen any significant price drop since I got my first cell phone 7 years ago, and the call quality has remained constantly average. Just griping I guess. >She then explained that for some weird reason my phone would arrive in 10 >days. What about the 2 day Fedex delivery? You guessed it, it's only >available for Web sales. Haha. So I asked, "Why aren't your sales >departments connected?" and she explained that they are, but for reasons >only God knows it takes several days to verify my credit card information >through customer service, whereas the website does it automatically. Imagine this scenario. Let's say you have a problem with text messaging on your phone. They tell you your issue must be handled by someone else (in this case, the data department, but they don't tell you that), so they transfer you. You explain the problem to them and they open a trouble ticket. You, being a diligent customer, get the ticket number so you can refer to the incident in case you have to call back later. They tell you they will look in to it and call you back. You wait for days with no call back. So you call customer service back, and give them the ticket number you were given. They tell you it doesn't exist. So you go through the entire explanation again. They pass you off to Tier 2 support because the problem is beyond their scope. They open another ticket, you write that number down. They then tell you to take your phone to the store and exchange it. You get the new phone and have the same issue. So you call customer service again. You give them the most recent ticket number, but they can't find it. So they open another ticket. After realizing they must again escalate the problem, you get transferred back to the data department. You give them the last ticket number you were given, but alas, it's not in their system. So they open yet another ticket, and give you that number. Go around and around like that a few times and you can collect a dozen or more ticket numbers, being frustrated that every time you call and give the last ticket number you were given, only to be told it doesn't exist. After a couple of months, you begin to piece together the facts and determine that each support department has its own trouble ticket system, and one department cannot access the tickets from the others. And they never tell you what department you are talking to unless you specifically ask. I don't have to imagine. That was my learning experience with VZW tech support. And I'd think in their own ways, each carrier has issues with the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. One would think communications companies would do a better job of communicating within their own companies. But sadly, that's not the world we live in anymore. >>She then explained that for some weird reason my phone would arrive in 10 >>days. What about the 2 day Fedex delivery? You guessed it, it's only [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > communicating within their own companies. But sadly, that's not the > world we live in anymore. Poor service is the bane of the so-called "tech" industries. That is why I will never switch my VOIP service, Lingo. Their customer service is unheard-of good, and their tech support is simply unbelievable. Two months ago I finally got wireless networking in my home, and had problems with setting up. Nowhere in the print or online D-Link instructions could I find what to do with a VOIP box. I called D-Link and they were clueless, unaware of the proper wiring with a VOIP. They had me trying all sorts of stuff which even I, a networking idiot, knew could not be correct. Not believing their lack of technical savvy was systemic, I called again and got someone even stupider than the first guy. Out of desperation I called Lingo, and even though the D-Link router was not their product (and my difficulty not the result of anything related to them), they solved my problem after about 10 minutes. Not once did I hear, "Sorry, SIR, we don't support that product, SIR." Otherwise your observations are pretty much universal. Except that Verizon's website is especially dysfunctional. An e-commerce site that does not allow people to purchase stuff is just too dumb to fathom. adp |
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