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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Verizon / October 2006Verizon Fiber Optics
Does anyone have any experience with Verizon Fiber Optics in the Dallas, Texas area? Sorry, if posted incorrectly, this is the ONLY group I can locate that has VERIZON in its name. TIA jeff >Does anyone have any experience with Verizon Fiber Optics in the Dallas, >Texas area? >Sorry, if posted incorrectly, this is the ONLY group I can locate that >has VERIZON in its name. >TIA >jeff There is a Verizon FIOS newsgroup. Oddly enough I can't access it through Agent but can access it through Outlook express. I am in the NY area and have switched to Verizon FIOS TV Internet and phone. Picture is much clearer than cable, internet is at a steady fast speed. Between the three I am saving $50/month >>Does anyone have any experience with Verizon Fiber Optics in the Dallas, >>Texas area? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > phone. Picture is much clearer than cable, internet is at a steady > fast speed. Between the three I am saving $50/month I'm in Carrollton, TX and I have FIOS Internet and TV. I don't think I've had any downtime since FIOS was installed approx. 18 months ago. TV picture is great. No complaints from me. DM >> Does anyone have any experience with Verizon Fiber Optics in the Dallas, >> Texas area? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > phone. Picture is much clearer than cable, internet is at a steady > fast speed. Between the three I am saving $50/month What town in what state? Lou >>Does anyone have any experience with Verizon Fiber Optics in the Dallas, >>Texas area? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > phone. Picture is much clearer than cable, internet is at a steady > fast speed. Between the three I am saving $50/month The Verizon FIOS newsgroup you speak of 'may' only be available to FIOS subscribers. it doesn't appear in my list of newsgroups from Giganews. >>>Does anyone have any experience with Verizon Fiber Optics in the Dallas, >>>Texas area? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > The Verizon FIOS newsgroup you speak of 'may' only be available to FIOS > subscribers. it doesn't appear in my list of newsgroups from Giganews. There is a newsgroup that I believe I saw mentioned as only being available on the verizon.net ISP news servers, 0.verizon.fios. You can get a lot of info on Verizon FIOS on dslreports.com, and some of it is a bit less than flattering - seems the same sort of FUD and Verizon agent incompetence and ignorance is as rampant there as is highlighted on this group frequently - something about that Verizon "corporate culture" I guess. ROC >>>>Does anyone have any experience with Verizon Fiber Optics in the Dallas, >>>>Texas area? [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >ROC I just looked at the user reviews on the DSL reports page. Reports I've read there and other forums compliment the installers. They seem to be mostly positive. My experience has been excellent. What about yours? >>ROC >I just looked at the user reviews on the DSL reports page. Reports >I've read there and other forums compliment the installers. They seem >to be mostly positive. My experience has been excellent. What about >yours? I have had all three FIOS services for about a year now (TV/broadband/phone). I can't imagine ever going back to cable. Where else will I get E3 speed (30/5) for $49 a month? And FIOS TV is excellent. Much better than cable. Every channel is clear and crisp and nearly HD quality (not to mention the HD channels). The DVR which you can only rent from Verizon (non-Verizon DVR's don't work on FIOS), is mediocre as far as DVR's go but, hey, it's an HD DVR that I rent for $12 a month. It'd take me over 6 years to break even if I bought a high end HD DVR and I couldn't just swap it out if it broke or malfunctioned like I can the rental. >>>>> Does anyone have any experience with Verizon Fiber Optics in the Dallas, >>>>> Texas area? [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > to be mostly positive. My experience has been excellent. What about > yours? No experience directly(no FIOS available in Durham, NC as yet). I was referring to what I read in one of the FIOS threads on dslreports. It seems a number of posters complained about the loss of copper landline reliability during power outages - the FIOS service is dependent on external power, and the UPS provided by Verizon (not in all cases it seems, depending on the local policy?) only maintains continuous power for about 4 hours. I have gone several days without power (ice storm, hurricane Fran in '96), but the landline kept working most of that time - very reassuring. Several posters on that thread stated they were told the copper lines HAD to be removed to get the FIOS, others said no such thing in their case - seemed to be a matter of the knowledge level of particular Verizon personnel. One striking case, as I recall, was a woman with some kind of medical condtion that made reliable phone access a real life or death proposition, and was mislead or lied to about the standby reliablity of FIOS-based communications in that regard. Makes me leery if FIOS ever becomes available here - I value reliability over speed since I work from home fulltime via the internet (maintain cable for primary access, and low-end 768/128 DSL for backup - have used it a number of times lately, and hardly noticed the speed drop - long as it's faster than dialup, but I have worked over that, too, when I did not have the DSL installed ;-). Sort of like old British sports cars and motorcycles: marvelous ... when they were in running condition, but that was frequently not the case. ROC >>>>>> Does anyone have any experience with Verizon Fiber Optics in the Dallas, >>>>>> Texas area? [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >hurricane Fran in '96), but the landline kept working most of that time >- very reassuring. In a power outage your TV and internet are going to go out whether you have FIOS or cable. It is true the fiber optic phone will only work with the FIOS battery backoup. They claim 4 hrs of talk time but I'll believe that when I see it. You can take the internet and TV package and keep the copper phone line but you do not get the discounts unless you take all three. >Several posters on that thread stated they were told the copper lines >HAD to be removed to get the FIOS, others said no such thing in their [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >life or death proposition, and was mislead or lied to about the standby >reliablity of FIOS-based communications in that regard. I had existing copper cable wires in my house. The fiber optic signal goes as far as the installed box on my house.The rest of the signal is transmitted through the existing copper. They replaced the splitters with better ones This is not the case with ATT's fiber otpic service.It goes to the edge of the neighborhood and the rest of the way on copper. >Makes me leery if FIOS ever becomes available here - I value reliability >over speed since I work from home fulltime via the internet (maintain >cable for primary access, and low-end 768/128 DSL for backup - have used >it a number of times lately, and hardly noticed the speed drop - long as >it's faster than dialup, but I have worked over that, too, when I did >not have the DSL installed ;-). I was one of the first internet customers of the hated Cablevision. They had a lot of growing pains in the beginning as I am sure FIOS will. Cablevision's reliability became very good. TV and internet on FIOS are far better than my previous cable connection not to mention the $50/month I'm saving As we are not heavy phone users the battery backup cabability is not an issue.. I think you should at least look into it if and when it becomes available in your area. >Sort of like old British sports cars and motorcycles: marvelous ... when >they were in running condition, but that was frequently not the case. > >ROC > No experience directly(no FIOS available in Durham, NC as yet). I was > referring to what I read in one of the FIOS threads on dslreports. It [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > hurricane Fran in '96), but the landline kept working most of that time > - very reassuring. Verizon WILL remove your copper PERMANENTLY if you don't tell them not to do so. This comes from a friend of mine who was a telco consultant for decades... and also is a FiOS customer. He told them "don't do it" and they didn't do it. Verizon would also very much like to remove the copper because it is regulated and the fiber isn't.  SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek ** Java/VB/VC/PHP/Perl ** Linux/*BSD/Windows Apple Valley, California PGP:0xE3AE35ED It's all fun and games until someone starts a bonfire in the living room. >> No experience directly(no FIOS available in Durham, NC as yet). I was >> referring to what I read in one of the FIOS threads on dslreports. It [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Verizon would also very much like to remove the copper because it is > regulated and the fiber isn't. Actually, a big reason for them to ditch copper is that fiber is a lot more reliable and requires less upkeep (i.e. expensive staff) than copper. We heard in the Tampa market that when fiber reaches a certain penetration level, they plan to ditch copper altogether. I've also seen some new homes that appear not to have any copper. In short, at some point, we are likely to eventually lose the power outage reliability of good on POT. I might suggest addinng a bigger UPS to the FIOS box or a generator. >> No experience directly(no FIOS available in Durham, NC as yet). I was >> referring to what I read in one of the FIOS threads on dslreports. It [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Verizon would also very much like to remove the copper because it is >regulated and the fiber isn't. The only thing that was removed from my house was the copper line from the outside wire to my house and the old phone connection box also on the outside. Seems easily replacable. The copper wire was replaced with the fiber optic. All lines inside my house remain copper including my cable wires. Aside from the fact that a power outage may affect my landline service with fiber optic I don't see the real disadvantage to it. In my case I am getting better service for less money. >>Verizon WILL remove your copper PERMANENTLY if you don't tell them not to >>do so. This comes from a friend of mine who was a telco consultant for [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > with the fiber optic. All lines inside my house remain copper > including my cable wires. Are you sure about that? > Aside from the fact that a power outage may affect my landline service > with fiber optic I don't see the real disadvantage to it. In my case I > am getting better service for less money. I don't like the fact that it's not regulated. Phone companies can and will screw you whenever they can. Verizon, granted, seems to be much better than SBC, but they're all anticompetitive, anti-consumer beasts. SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek ** Java/VB/VC/PHP/Perl ** Linux/*BSD/Windows Apple Valley, California PGP:0xE3AE35ED It's all fun and games until someone starts a bonfire in the living room. > >>> Verizon WILL remove your copper PERMANENTLY if you don't tell them not to [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > screw you whenever they can. Verizon, granted, seems to be much better than > SBC, but they're all anticompetitive, anti-consumer beasts. Yabut they are now in direct competition with the cable outfits. That is good for consumers. Lou > Yabut they are now in direct competition with the cable outfits. > > That is good for consumers. Only if you think cable carriers are also greedy, anti-competitive beasts. :) Which to some extent, they are. SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek ** Java/VB/VC/PHP/Perl ** Linux/*BSD/Windows Apple Valley, California PGP:0xE3AE35ED It's all fun and games until someone starts a bonfire in the living room. >> Yabut they are now in direct competition with the cable outfits. >> >> That is good for consumers. > > Only if you think cable carriers are also greedy, anti-competitive beasts. :) > Which to some extent, they are. Absolutely they are! The raise their rates faster than all other competitors, at least, in the Twin Cities area. My Father used to take for granted that he had cable and DBS was too expensive, he never even looked at it. It took years of convincing, but finally the DirecTV Tivo did it ;-) SignatureThomas T. Veldhouse Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1 >>>Verizon WILL remove your copper PERMANENTLY if you don't tell them not to >>>do so. This comes from a friend of mine who was a telco consultant for [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >screw you whenever they can. Verizon, granted, seems to be much better than >SBC, but they're all anticompetitive, anti-consumer beasts. I am absolutely sure. I watched the installation from beginning to end. The fiber optic from the telephone line is connected to the new box on the outside of my house. From there they installed a new fiber line to the free router provided by Verizon. My old copper cable connection is connected to the router as well. All the TV's run on cable wire. The tech actually rearranged some of the copper telephone wires that were causing a hum in my old system so that it would not affect the new installation. No copper or old telephone wire was removed other than the line from the outside line to my house. I'm actually paying less for landline service including all calls to US and territories than I was paying for regional calling on copper. >>>Verizon WILL remove your copper PERMANENTLY if you don't tell them not to >>>do so. This comes from a friend of mine who was a telco consultant for [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Are you sure about that? with me, they just snipped the copper coming into the house and then connected the fiber to the phone system. If I ever wanted to switch back, I'd just have to have the copper reconnected. Not biggie. > >>> Verizon WILL remove your copper PERMANENTLY if you don't tell them not to [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Are you sure about that? That sounds like every FiOS install I have seen. The media converter (can't remember the term they use) has connections for POTS, Ethernet and coaxial cable for the TVs. They remove the copper service drop and connect the existing copper premise lines to that unit. > >> Aside from the fact that a power outage may affect my landline service [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > screw you whenever they can. Verizon, granted, seems to be much better than > SBC, but they're all anticompetitive, anti-consumer beasts. >> >> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >> than >> SBC, but they're all anticompetitive, anti-consumer beasts. Ah, but the key "point of no return" is that the EXTERNAL copper is removed, and WILL NOT be replaced, no matter what - as happened with the lady requiring reliable communications for a medical condition mentioned on the dslreports thread I mentioned early in this thread. She was SoL when she found out she could not make a help call if she had a medical emergency during a long power outage, and then wanted to undo the FIOS deal. My sticking point is reliability, not speed, so I would certainly resist any inducements to give up my landline (IF FIOS ever gets here - hoping it won't). DSL over copper is a quite adequate backup for my primary internet connection over cable (fast enough for me), and DOES stay up through moderate-duration power outages (several days) in which FIOS would not (from what I understand). I understand the strategy is to stop maintaining the copper, so eventually it will degrade to unreliable conditions (corrosion of wiring connections would seem to be main culprit). The double "bonus" for Verizon would be eliminating that maintenance cost, and gaining revenue from all the FIOS installations that would be replacing the copper - and, I suppose, a 3rd bonus of no regulation ... so far. I would think any public utility type commission would then have to consider bringing it under their purview if FIOS becomes the only "public" telecommunications medium by such default - not that I have any great faith in a government agency looking out for the individual consumer, as witness the FCC and the cell phone industry (guess that's something in this thread finally on-topic for this NG ;-). With only cable for competition (I've already laughed them off the call when the sales schmuck suggested I replace my landline with their digital phone: " and how would I call you for service when cable is out??? Hahahaha..."), that is an oligopoly, and thus not much inducement to competition, but more to price-fixing and territory division, more often in collusion with regulators in the name of "orderly markets". See this illustrative definition of "Collusive Oligopoly" (from a South Afican site of all places ;-): http://www.compcom.co.za/thelaw/thelaw_glossary.asp?level=3#6 Oh well, technology advances will never overcome our permament human institutional failings, so we have to remain vigilent. ROC > Ah, but the key "point of no return" is that the EXTERNAL copper is > removed, and WILL NOT be replaced, no matter what - as happened with the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > emergency during a long power outage, and then wanted to undo the FIOS > deal. There are ways to address that such as adding a UPS in addition to the battery that is supplied with the FiOS install. An inexpensive UPS would easily keep the line up for 3 or 4 days. Or to stay on a topic appropriate to the VZW group get a cellphone that uses a carrier that has batteries, generators and all sorts of redundant stuff in their system. The only carrier I know of that does that is VZW. I have no interest in Verizon but I can certainly understand them wanting to get rid of the copper. If someone has a medical problem or other issue where they need a reliable phone the time to bring that up would be before ordering whatever the new service might be. > My sticking point is reliability, not speed, so I would certainly resist > any inducements to give up my landline (IF FIOS ever gets here - hoping > it won't). DSL over copper is a quite adequate backup for my primary > internet connection over cable (fast enough for me), and DOES stay up > through moderate-duration power outages (several days) in which FIOS > would not (from what I understand). My understanding of FiOS is that it only requires power on each end. The CO side has batteries and generators so as long as you can keep your side up with a UPS or generator it will work. > I understand the strategy is to stop maintaining the copper, so > eventually it will degrade to unreliable conditions (corrosion of wiring [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > ROC > If someone has a medical problem or other issue where they need a > reliable phone the time to bring that up would be before ordering > whatever the new service might be. Wrong - part of the sales script should be "do you have a medical condition or other situation which may require working phones during a protracted power outage?" One day, someone is going to die as a result of FIOS phones not being available, and Verizon is going to get sued, probably for a large sum of money. A simple question or two could help them avoid that situation. SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek ** Java/VB/VC/PHP/Perl ** Linux/*BSD/Windows Apple Valley, California PGP:0xE3AE35ED It's all fun and games until someone starts a bonfire in the living room. >> If someone has a medical problem or other issue where they need a >> reliable phone the time to bring that up would be before ordering [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >available, and Verizon is going to get sued, probably for a large sum >of money. A simple question or two could help them avoid that situation. wrong...there may be a moral imperative to maintain phone service but there's no *legal* requirement to do so. Recently, there was a portion of Alexandria that was out for a WEEK. Although it was definitely an inconvenience, there wasn't any legal requirement to have it up and running. It was up when it came up. And, quite frankly, more and more people are dropping landlines and are just using their cell phones anyway. If phone service is that critical, it's wise to have a cell phone backup with multiple spare, charged batteries. And, a cheap alternative to adding additional UPS's is just set your landline phone number to autoforward to your cell phone until the power outage is over. Incidentally, as one who *has* FIOS for over a year now and who watched the (6 hour) installation, I can tell you that the copper lines were NOT removed from our residence. The copper lines are buried in our backyard, they didn't dig up the copper. They just disconnected the lines. I can even see where the lines are tied off and stuffed back in the ground. I confirmed this with the installer. My neighbors reported the same thing so, at least for this area, I'd take any (unqualified) announcements of POTS copper being physically removed with a HUGE grain of salt. And yes, FIOS is *blazing* fast and their TV signal makes DISH and DirecTv look like a fuzzy signal IMHO. But their HD DVR *sucks* but it's the only game in town. Tivo doesn't work on it. > wrong...there may be a moral imperative to maintain phone service but > there's no *legal* requirement to do so. No, there isn't. But someone in this situation who hires any half decent lawyer can probably nail them on other issues. SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek ** Java/VB/VC/PHP/Perl ** Linux/*BSD/Windows Apple Valley, California PGP:0xE3AE35ED It's all fun and games until someone starts a bonfire in the living room. >> wrong...there may be a moral imperative to maintain phone service but >> there's no *legal* requirement to do so. > >No, there isn't. But someone in this situation who hires any half decent >lawyer can probably nail them on other issues. yeah right. A "half decent" lawyer against a limitless supply of $$ to feed their army of corporate lawyers. Good luck. >>No, there isn't. But someone in this situation who hires any half decent >>lawyer can probably nail them on other issues. > > yeah right. A "half decent" lawyer against a limitless supply of $$ > to feed their army of corporate lawyers. Good luck. For what it's worth, I share your pessimism; however, I don't think it's completely impossible to win such a case. SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek ** Java/VB/VC/PHP/Perl ** Linux/*BSD/Windows Apple Valley, California PGP:0xE3AE35ED It's all fun and games until someone starts a bonfire in the living room. >> wrong...there may be a moral imperative to maintain phone service but >> there's no *legal* requirement to do so. > > No, there isn't. But someone in this situation who hires any half decent > lawyer can probably nail them on other issues. "I have fallen and I can't get up". Somebody in such a situation should be taking precautions over and above simply relying upon FIOS. SignatureThomas T. Veldhouse Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1 > "I have fallen and I can't get up". Somebody in such a situation should be > taking precautions over and above simply relying upon FIOS. Yes, but many -- most -- people won't realize there's a difference. It's telephone service, offered by the local phone company. I don't think it's reasonable to expect customers, especially new customers, to understand the inner workings of the service, nor the related shortcomings. SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek ** Java/VB/VC/PHP/Perl ** Linux/*BSD/Windows Apple Valley, California PGP:0xE3AE35ED It's all fun and games until someone starts a bonfire in the living room. Replied "inline" >> "I have fallen and I can't get up". Somebody in such a situation should >> be [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the > inner workings of the service, nor the related shortcomings. Whatever happened to "Caveat Emptor" ? SignatureI work for the ILEC ...." stuff happens! " > Replied "inline" > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Whatever happened to "Caveat Emptor" ? It died along with the rest of personal responsibility a long time ago. > It died along with the rest of personal responsibility a long time ago. Oh, so you think I'm saying the buyer should not have to bother researching his purchase? You're not even way out in left field - you're on the freeway, about ten miles away from the ballpark. :) SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek ** Java/VB/VC/PHP/Perl ** Linux/*BSD/Windows Apple Valley, California PGP:0xE3AE35ED It's all fun and games until someone starts a bonfire in the living room. >> It died along with the rest of personal responsibility a long time ago. > > Oh, so you think I'm saying the buyer should not have to bother > researching > his purchase? No, I'm saying personal responsibility is dead. > You're not even way out in left field - you're on the freeway, about ten > miles away from the ballpark. :) Don't try to read things into what I'm saying and you'll be a lot closer to understanding me. >> You're not even way out in left field - you're on the freeway, about ten >> miles away from the ballpark. :) > > Don't try to read things into what I'm saying and you'll be a lot closer to > understanding me. You wouldn't have made the comment out of the blue for no reason. At least I'm assuming you wouldn't. What annoys me is: my point that the consumer can't possibly be expected to know all of the ins and outs is taken to mean "the consumer shouldn't have to educate himself at all." Of course the consumer needs to gather as many facts as possible, so he can make an informed decision. There are just some questions that non-technical people won't know to ask. SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek ** Java/VB/VC/PHP/Perl ** Linux/*BSD/Windows Apple Valley, California PGP:0xE3AE35ED It's all fun and games until someone starts a bonfire in the living room. >>> You're not even way out in left field - you're on the freeway, about ten >>> miles away from the ballpark. :) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I'm > assuming you wouldn't. You're right! I was replying to the poster who said "Whatever happened to Caveat Emptor?". I suppose for clarity's sake I should have snipped everything else out of my reply. > Whatever happened to "Caveat Emptor" ? Of course it still behooves the buyer to research what they're buying. Caveat Emptor absolutely applies. But really, how many people do you think are going to KNOW to look into battery backup? How many people do you think realize that copper-based phones work during major power failures because the telco's central office has battery backup? I do. But then, I've been inside telco facilities. :) SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek ** Java/VB/VC/PHP/Perl ** Linux/*BSD/Windows Apple Valley, California PGP:0xE3AE35ED It's all fun and games until someone starts a bonfire in the living room. Oh here we go, I guess you would sue the oil companies if your car ran out of gas on the way to the hospital, Just another excuse to sue someone about something. Al >> wrong...there may be a moral imperative to maintain phone service but >> there's no *legal* requirement to do so. > > No, there isn't. But someone in this situation who hires any half decent > lawyer can probably nail them on other issues. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 55 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! >Oh here we go, I guess you would sue the oil companies if your car ran out >of gas on the way to the hospital, Just another excuse to sue someone about >something. >Al don't cha know? It's all about blaming someone else so that you don't have to take personal responsibility for being an idiot. I guess if the landline goes out because farmer Fred whacks it with his backhoe, everyone can sue the phone company because the phone line is out all weekend. >>> wrong...there may be a moral imperative to maintain phone service but >>> there's no *legal* requirement to do so. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Paying users do not have this message in their emails. >Try SPAMfighter for free now! > don't cha know? It's all about blaming someone else so that you don't > have to take personal responsibility for being an idiot. Except that's not what I said. Try reading my posts, since you didn't the last time I recommended that to you. Or are you just looking for someone to flame today? SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek ** Java/VB/VC/PHP/Perl ** Linux/*BSD/Windows Victorville, California PGP:0xE3AE35ED It's all fun and games until someone starts a bonfire in the living room. >> don't cha know? It's all about blaming someone else so that you don't >> have to take personal responsibility for being an idiot. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Or are you just looking for someone to flame today? No, I read your posts and they make as much sense then as your babbling does now. I have never heard of anyone successfully suing the phone company because it didn't work. Maybe it has happened, but I doubt it. And you claiming that it *could* happen doesn't make it any more plausible. Cell phones die all the time. I haven't heard of anyone suing the cell phone company because their battery died or they lost a signal. Oh wait, that's right... maybe pigs fly too. Just because I don't see any, and no one has else has ever seen one, doesn't mean there aren't any. uh huh...sure... > Cell phones die all the time. I haven't heard of anyone suing the > cell phone company because their battery died or they lost a signal. your point is...? This analogy sucks. SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek ** Java/VB/VC/PHP/Perl ** Linux/*BSD/Windows Victorville, California PGP:0xE3AE35ED It's all fun and games until someone starts a bonfire in the living room. >> Cell phones die all the time. I haven't heard of anyone suing the >> cell phone company because their battery died or they lost a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > This analogy sucks. Funny I did not read this whole thread. But I wanted to comment on the battery dying issue. I recently had battery life problems on a Razr that is less than a year old. I went in to the verizon store thinking that the battery as like the phone was covered under the 1 year warranty. However to my surprise I was told that the "battery" was not considered part of the original warranty. I said it came with the battery did it not? And the guy at the store said yes it did but was considered a consumable and that its life varied from 6 months to one year. At this juncture he said verizon gives a prorate on the battery and that for $30 I could get the new standard battery or for $48 a new extended battery. Having no way out of the argument I purchased a new battery. Life is back to where it was as new and now I know this phone will cost me $30 every 6-12 months. They get you coming and going... Elector > Funny I did not read this whole thread. But I wanted to comment on the > battery dying issue. I recently had battery life problems on a Razr [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > considered a consumable and that its life varied from 6 months to one > year. That's right. It's like stuff like tires and brakes that aren't covered under auto warranty because they are wear-and-tear items. They degrade under regular usage. Likewise, a Li-Ion battery only lasts for a certain number of discharge/recharge cycles. If the batteries normally lasted several years, I could see replacing them under warranty if they only lasted a year, or nine months or whatever. >At this juncture he said verizon gives a prorate on the battery > and that for $30 I could get the new standard battery or for $48 a new > extended battery. Having no way out of the argument I purchased a new > battery. Life is back to where it was as new and now I know this phone > will cost me $30 every 6-12 months. That's not a bad price for a battery, IMHO. Most brand-new ones I've seen are $50-60. SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek ** Java/VB/VC/PHP/Perl ** Linux/*BSD/Windows Victorville, California PGP:0xE3AE35ED It's all fun and games until someone starts a bonfire in the living room. <snip> > That's not a bad price for a battery, IMHO. Most brand-new ones I've seen > are $50-60. I also thought that was a great price. I bought one..ha ha Elector > Oh here we go, I guess you would sue the oil companies if your car ran out > of gas on the way to the hospital, Just another excuse to sue someone about > something. That's right. I would. (I'm tired of arguing that I wouldn't. You're just one more person who obviously hasn't read my posts that say that the consumer needs to be responsible for researching the purchase. Since you obviously didn't bother reading those posts, it's probably pointless for me to point out that I'm not necessarily ADVOCATING a suit, just pointing out how easy it would be to win one. There are already too many lawsuits clogging up our courts.) SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek ** Java/VB/VC/PHP/Perl ** Linux/*BSD/Windows Victorville, California PGP:0xE3AE35ED It's all fun and games until someone starts a bonfire in the living room. > And, quite frankly, more and more people are dropping landlines and > are just using their cell phones anyway. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > number to autoforward to your cell phone until the power outage is > over. That is only is valid IF the cell system can handle the increased load. My experience over the last few years is that when an "emergency" is in full swing (couple inches of snow on a school day around here in RTP, NC area ;-), the cell network is overwhelmed, and I mean Verizon's. > Incidentally, as one who *has* FIOS for over a year now and who > watched the (6 hour) installation, I can tell you that the copper [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > take any (unqualified) announcements of POTS copper being physically > removed with a HUGE grain of salt. Well, here's opposite "testimony": "After the installer verified that my phones and internet worked, he removed the old NID box outside the house and took down the 300' copper run to the pole. While I'm a little nervous about power outages, I've always got my cell phone and my wife is an EMT with a battery run police transceiver. It'll be OK, I suspect." http://www.dslreports.com/comments/2568?1=1&p=2 NJ experiences - I am seeing a number mentioning removal of copper as a downside - or making them nervous at least. Maybe it depends on where you are? ROC >> And, quite frankly, more and more people are dropping landlines and >> are just using their cell phones anyway. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > ROC Seems pretty easy and logical to figger from the above... One guy, copper lines were buried and not dug up.... "The copper lines are >> buried in our backyard, they didn't dig up the copper" Other guy, copper lines in the AIR... "took down the 300' > copper run to the pole" Above ground, take it, buried underground, leave it... > Well, here's opposite "testimony": > "After the installer verified that my phones and internet worked, he [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > downside - or making them nervous at least. Maybe it depends on where > you are? I suspect they would remove overhead copper runs. In fact, I think most people would want them too as overhead copper is UGLY. SignatureThomas T. Veldhouse Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1 >> Well, here's opposite "testimony": >> "After the installer verified that my phones and internet worked, he [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >I suspect they would remove overhead copper runs. In fact, I think most >people would want them too as overhead copper is UGLY. The overhead Fios run to my house looks exactly the same and is in the same place as the old copper run. > >> If someone has a medical problem or other issue where they need a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > of money. A simple question or two could help them avoid that situation. > I agree they should be up front and it would be good if their welcome kit would hit such key points. From a legal standpoint they are providing a residential service where the TOS specifically is very typical and defines that they don't guarantee anything and are not responsible for any damages. In the case of wireless Cingular and tmobile they are in much the same position. They aren't big on battery or backup generators on their equipment and probably very few people realize (especially the ones who dropped their POTS) if they have one of those carriers the service will likely be lost at the same time the commercial power fails. > I agree they should be up front and it would be good if their welcome > kit would hit such key points. From a legal standpoint they are [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > dropped their POTS) if they have one of those carriers the service will > likely be lost at the same time the commercial power fails. Indeed. But there is one big difference. This is the US, where people don't generally expect their wireless phone service to be as reliable as POTS. FIOS-based phones are probably going to carry different expectations. SignatureSteve Sobol, Professional Geek ** Java/VB/VC/PHP/Perl ** Linux/*BSD/Windows Apple Valley, California PGP:0xE3AE35ED It's all fun and games until someone starts a bonfire in the living room. > I agree they should be up front and it would be good if their welcome > kit would hit such key points. From a legal standpoint they are [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > dropped their POTS) if they have one of those carriers the service will > likely be lost at the same time the commercial power fails. The tower that covers my neighborhood contains antennas for all four providers and there is clearly a platform and an generator attached. In fact, there was a recent outage in the area that lasted several hours and included the area around the tower and cell coverage worked fine including Vision (I was using Sprint PCS at the time). SignatureThomas T. Veldhouse Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1 > The tower that covers my neighborhood contains antennas for all four providers > and there is clearly a platform and an generator attached. In fact, there was > a recent outage in the area that lasted several hours and included the area > around the tower and cell coverage worked fine including Vision (I was using > Sprint PCS at the time). I'm fairly sure that the generator is not for the whole site. Let's say Verizon placed the generator. Then, it will power VZW's equipment, none of the others. The only thing that is shared is the tower itself. The T1's or DS3s that come in there are not shared - neither is the generator. If it is a 'tower company' site, maybe. But in most cases I've seen, they provide tower space and a pad to place equipment. Everything else is carrier supplied and usually not shared between carriers. Most carrier's site equipment has some type of battery back-up designed to last for a certain period. Maybe the power outage you describe was just shorter in duration than the run time of these batteries? > I'm fairly sure that the generator is not for the whole site. Let's say Verizon placed > the generator. Then, it will power VZW's equipment, none of the others. The only thing that is shared > is the tower itself. The T1's or DS3s that come in there are not shared - neither is the generator. > > If it is a 'tower company' site, maybe. But in most cases I've seen, they provide tower space and a pad > to place equipment. Everything else is carrier supplied and usually not shared between carriers. Indeed, with four carriers on the same tower, it is by far the most likely to be an indepedent operator and not owned by any of the big four. > Most carrier's site equipment has some type of battery back-up designed to last for a certain period. Maybe the power > outage you describe was just shorter in duration than the run time of these batteries? I am quite sure there is a generator [now] as I say it installed recently. SignatureThomas T. Veldhouse Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1 >> I agree they should be up front and it would be good if their welcome >> kit would hit such key points. From a legal standpoint they are [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > around the tower and cell coverage worked fine including Vision (I was using > Sprint PCS at the time). Each carrier at a shared site has their own equipment. VZW is usually the only carrier that has both batteries and a generator. The generator you saw probably belongs to them. Sprint has battery in their sites so that is why your Sprint service stayed up. Typically the GSM carriers have neither batteries or a generator. >> I agree they should be up front and it would be good if their welcome >> kit would hit such key points. From a legal standpoint they are [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > using > Sprint PCS at the time). We discovered in Florida over the last few hurricane seasons that there may be a bunch of batteries and a generator at the site, they don't provide juice for the people who didn't pay for it. Further, when a provider rolls in a generator after the storm, they may only be interested in providing juice for their own gear. There was even an Alltel guy who says he offered pwoer to the other folks on a tower after Charlie and was turned down pending approval from higher authority. That doesnot even cover the towers that was wrecked from wind that no amount of batteries or generators could help. Several hours usually isn't a problem, it's several days that becomes an issue. Most providers aren't set for several days on every site. > That sounds like every FiOS install I have seen. The media converter > (can't remember the term they use) I don't know the term VZ uses either but the device you are describing is a bridge - i.e., a device that bridges two (or more) incompatible network hardware topologies - in this case fiber optic to POTS and fiber optic to coax. > Does anyone have any experience with Verizon Fiber Optics in the Dallas, > Texas area? > Sorry, if posted incorrectly, this is the ONLY group I can locate that > has VERIZON in its name. > TIA > jeff I don't live in Texas, however where I live in Maryland has access to the whole package. A few of my coworkers have the FIOS internet and have raved about it. The one complaint one of my friends has is that she can't pry her husband off to get on herself. Theoretically I would know more tomorrow, I am scheduled to have FIOS installed. Whether they will make the target date, I don't know, they haven't run the fiber from the junction box three doors down, to our house. It has to be done underground as utilities are buried here. At the present, we are electing to just get the internet. Presently, we have DirecTV with two DirecTivos. To match the service with the two DVRs would be more expensive with Verizon and I don't want to mess with something that is working. Thanks to all who responded, service is being installed on 18 October. I will post when it is completed to let all know what I think. jeff >>Does anyone have any experience with Verizon Fiber Optics in the Dallas, >>Texas area? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > would be more expensive with Verizon and I don't want to mess with something > that is working. > Thanks to all who responded, service is being installed on 18 October. > I will post when it is completed to let all know what I think. > jeff I'm sure it will be a great service. I probably won't get it until I'm in a wheelchair though, 'cause I live in the sticks. > Does anyone have any experience with Verizon Fiber Optics in the Dallas, > Texas area? > Sorry, if posted incorrectly, this is the ONLY group I can locate that > has VERIZON in its name. > TIA > jeff There is a thread dedicated to Verizon FIOS users at www.avsforum.com Highly recommended. -- Paul BTW, any word on deployment in New Jersey, as in northwestern NJ? We were the last people on earth to get internet service. It would be a gas if we were among the first to receive fiber to the home. adp > Does anyone have any experience with Verizon Fiber Optics in the Dallas, > Texas area? > Sorry, if posted incorrectly, this is the ONLY group I can locate that > has VERIZON in its name. > TIA > jeff > BTW, any word on deployment in New Jersey, as in northwestern NJ? We were > the last people on earth to get internet service. It would be a gas if we > were among the first to receive fiber to the home. I suspect a lot of areas (including mine) may never see it. Verizon is taking a lot of flak about the money they are spending to deploy FiOS. I read that their minimum cost/subscriber such as in an optimum area (all overhead, close spacing of homes etc) is $2,000. The question is whether that is a good investment. I would have thought the number would be higher than that! If all they can sell high speed internet service it would probably be break even (assuming $40/month/customer = 50-month payback). But the great thing about fiber is the breathtaking bandwidth. Video on demand and VOIP services added to Internet access should make it quite profitable. I would sign up in an instant. >> BTW, any word on deployment in New Jersey, as in northwestern NJ? We were >> the last people on earth to get internet service. It would be a gas if we [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > overhead, close spacing of homes etc) is $2,000. The question is whether > that is a good investment. >>> BTW, any word on deployment in New Jersey, as in northwestern NJ? We were >>> the last people on earth to get internet service. It would be a gas if we >>> were among the first to receive fiber to the home. Just got 30 Mbit FIOS on Monday in Princeton NJ. Verizon claims they will cover the whole state because of the NJ mandate to provide TV service uniformly, not just the cities. Not sure if this applies to other states. >>>> BTW, any word on deployment in New Jersey, as in northwestern NJ? We >>>> were [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Not sure if this applies to other states. Wow, that's great news. I'm about 65 miles north of you on Rte 206, in NJ. > Does anyone have any experience with Verizon Fiber Optics in the Dallas, > Texas area? > Sorry, if posted incorrectly, this is the ONLY group I can locate that > has VERIZON in its name. > TIA > jeff I finally got Verizon FIOS installed and love it. However I can't find out how to configure the Newsgroup settings. Does anyone know what the NNTP settings are for Verizon or Verizon/Yahoo. TIA Carl > I finally got Verizon FIOS installed and love it. However I can't find out > how to configure the Newsgroup settings. Does anyone know what the NNTP > settings are for Verizon or Verizon/Yahoo. Buddy ... this is a cellular newsgroup ... for Verizon Wireless. SignatureThomas T. Veldhouse Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0 >> I finally got Verizon FIOS installed and love it. However I can't find out >> how to configure the Newsgroup settings. Does anyone know what the NNTP >> settings are for Verizon or Verizon/Yahoo. > >Buddy ... this is a cellular newsgroup ... for Verizon Wireless. This topic is better than a lot of the wireless topics. >> I finally got Verizon FIOS installed and love it. However I can't find >> out >> how to configure the Newsgroup settings. Does anyone know what the NNTP >> settings are for Verizon or Verizon/Yahoo. > > Buddy ... this is a cellular newsgroup ... for Verizon Wireless. Thank you for your kind concern and assistance. Gee I wouldn't have known, even though I was following the whole thread and heard it said before. Unfortunately there isn't any thing else on Verizon Fiber Optics on the ATT website, which is why others and I have posted here. Thank you Teddeli, the account information you posted worked fine. I'm up and running on Verizon now. >>> I finally got Verizon FIOS installed and love it. However I can't find >>> out [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Thank you Teddeli, the account information you posted worked fine. I'm up >and running on Verizon now. BTW there is a fios newsgroup that seems to be available only on the Verizon sever.It is very quiet though There's not much information about fios on the web yet 0.verizon.fios. not sure 0 is the letter or number You might also try these links for some info http://www.dslreports.com/ you can filter this to show only fiber optic posts which will show mostly fios http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/index.php? there are some fios posts here but you have to do a search for them. http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/ a nice speedtest site. choose the city nearest you >> Does anyone have any experience with Verizon Fiber Optics in the Dallas, >> Texas area? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >TIA >Carl The news server setting is news.verizon.net You have to log on the first time with your password and set tour account to remember the password if you don't want to keep logging on. |
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