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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Verizon / January 2008Who is sales.liveperson.net??
Go to the VZW public website and don't login if you have an account. Set your browser up so you can watch what it connects to and downloads from, including Doubleclick, damn them. Browse into the plans, individual plans and pick one. Click the button to open the plan and watch what it goes to in the tray.....sales.liveperson.net Is VZW watching or logging what you do while looking through the sales brochure? AS long as you have the webpage open, the browser is transferring data from sales.liveperson.net. What are they transferring when you're not doing anything but reading it, not clicking? They've got lots of scripts to Coremetrics loaded, too: <script type="text/javascript" src="http://cache.vzw.com/js/shared/coremetrics/v31/eluminate.js"> </script> <script type="text/javascript" src="http://cache.vzw.com/js/shared/coremetrics/v31/techprops.js"> </script> <script type="text/javascript" src="http://cache.vzw.com/js/shared/coremetrics/cmdatatagutils.inc"> </script> Don'tcha love it when webpage A shares data with company B while you're just looking at their spam? It also starts davcdata.exe running an IIS server, maybe to coremetrics as I see test.coremetrics.com accessing the browser. Then, if you just leave it sit, you get a popup window warning you they are going to turn off your VZW browsing if you don't "do anything" in 5 minutes, making me even more suspicious someone is WATCHING what you do and what you click. They want to get you offline to stop the data flowing uselessly back to their system....obviously. Y'all try it....and read the core codes. It also keeps a connection to an http port on 130.94.77.118:http that has no dns lookup or whois in any database. The trace goes to: 15 129.250.2.85 62ms 76ms 76ms TTL: 0 (xe-1- 1.r01.stngva01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net ok) 16 129.250.28.204 84ms 90ms 79ms TTL: 0 (mg- 1.c20.stngva01.us.da.verio.net probable bogus rDNS: No DNS) 17 161.58.157.141 122ms 110ms 65ms TTL: 0 (No rDNS) where it dies in stng.VA on verio.net. If I kill it, lots of internal active ports also closes. Keystroke monitoring and recording? Spying on people? What does it do? It forces Firefox to close if you dump this IP. I've never seen this kind of penetration from any other website. In alt.cellular.verizon, you wrote: > Browse into the plans, individual plans and pick one. Click the button > to open the plan and watch what it goes to in the > tray.....sales.liveperson.net > Is VZW watching or logging what you do while looking through the sales > brochure? AS long as you have the webpage open, the browser is > transferring data from sales.liveperson.net. What are they transferring > when you're not doing anything but reading it, not clicking? Um, Larry. Did you visit www.liveperson.net? OK, actually, the .net homepage has a link to liveperson.COM, that's where you need to go. They run a hosted chat service used by many large companies to aid in customer service. Kinda like an outsourced online call center. They do offer some tracking services, but those services give Verizon nothing they couldn't get by using Google Analytics or a similar hosted metrics service or program... stuff that your browser would tell them anyhow. (City, state, etc. are identifiable from your IP address.) I don't see where the liveperson link is, it doesn't seem to be on the home page, but I can guarantee that on the page that transfers data from sales. liveperson.net, there is a Click-to-Talk-to-VZW button somewhere. > Don'tcha love it when webpage A shares data with company B while you're > just looking at their spam? What personally identifiable data do you think they are collecting? Note that I said PERSONALLY IDENTIFIABLE. Anyone can get your IP address, HTTP User-Agent string (which tells which browser and OS you use), and several other basic pieces of data with no effort at all. None of those pieces of data identifies you as Larry. Now, if you are logged into a website using a username and password, that's different, but you probably had to give them information in the first place, to gain the ability to log in. Am I saying they're not doing anything they shouldn't be? No. What I AM saying is that you probably need to do a little research before you start yelling "conspiracy" here. > Then, if you just leave it sit, you get a popup window warning you they > are going to turn off your VZW browsing if you don't "do anything" in 5 > minutes, making me even more suspicious someone is WATCHING what you do > and what you click. They want to get you offline to stop the data > flowing uselessly back to their system....obviously. > Y'all try it....and read the core codes. \Why? I have no reason to go to the VZW site. I don't text anyone with a VZW phone, I'm no longer a VZW customer and I don't plan on becoming one anytime soon. I believe you. I'm just saying it doesn't affect me. > If I kill it, lots of internal active ports also closes. Which ports? Now I'm curious. Do a netstat -an in a DOS window (or shell prompt if you're on a Linux box). I'm curious what's open. > Keystroke monitoring and recording? Spying on people? It's possible they're spying. Is it likely? I doubt it. Oh, and I noticed a bunch of connections to Akamai. Those have nothing to do with spying, I can pretty much guarantee it. Akamai runs a caching service and they have cache servers placed pretty much all over the planet; the idea is instead of pulling data from www.verizonwireless.com, which may or may not be close to you in terms of Internet topology... you'll pull a mirror of the web page you're looking for, from a server that is guaranteed to be close to you. The idea is to deliver the web page to your web browser in the shortest amount of time possible.  SignatureSteve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol > I don't see where the liveperson link is, it doesn't seem to be on the > home page, but I can guarantee that on the page that transfers data > from sales. liveperson.net, there is a Click-to-Talk-to-VZW button > somewhere. It's not on the homepage. I saw it connect to some strange IP none of the DNS servers can make into either a Whois or name server with TCPView. I forced a disconnect and it reconnected. The livepersons must be watching what you're doing and at a certain point in the ordering sequence, they popup a chat window. It's creepy.... > It's not on the homepage. I saw it connect to some strange IP none of the > DNS servers can make into either a Whois or name server with TCPView. I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > It's creepy.... Well, although I do think you have the tinfoil hat on too often, there isn't anything wrong with being cautious. Better to be too cautious than too careless, for sure, especially these days when there ARE plenty of people trying to steal your private info for various reasons. And, for what it's worth, I suspect that it's exactly as you describe: at some point you get to a web page that uses Liveperson's services. And if you're not familiar with the service or the company, I can understand why you'd get a little worried. SignatureSteve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol > It's not on the homepage. I saw it connect to some strange IP none of the > DNS servers can make into either a Whois or name server with TCPView. I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > It's creepy.... Sprint does the same thing. On two occasions I was looking at plans on their web page and a chat window popped up...and I *KNOW* I didn't click on anything to initiate a chat at MY end. > What personally identifiable data do you think they are collecting? > Note that I said PERSONALLY IDENTIFIABLE. Anyone can get your IP [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > but you probably had to give them information in the first place, to > gain the ability to log in. My computer belongs to the ficticious Melvin Schultz, an old joke name we hams used to use on old POTS long distance, person-to-person collect, to alert our buddies far away to get on 3.903 Mhz LSB, our little group's 75 meter SSB frequency...without paying for the call because Melvin was never home to receive it collect. Melvin has phoney credit card numbers, bank account numbers, his own phoney SSN and SC drivers license numbers, even two car tags....all neatly arranged for the scammers into Outlook Express I don't use, except for baiting. Melvin's yearly income is around $148K, so he gets great service from everyone! I've spread his phoney identity around the net for 20 years. Check his credit rating on Equifax! He's AAA+! He has no debts and always pays his bills. They can have all of Melvin's identity they like. I'm not on the system at all. Melvin also has usernames and passwords in lots of places so the bots can't miss his identity to steal. I've never seen him on the long list of most wanted posters in the Post Office, though. He DOES get about 12 really good, pre-approved credit card offers a month, but I just trash those. No WONDER the financial institutions are in trouble giving credit cards with LARGE credit limits out to ficticious people. Oh, and he gets lots of PORN SPAM.....It's disgusting! Melvin's a Baptist Preacher by trade! What would they think?! ------------------------------------------------ No, what upsets me from this scammer is they are following me around the website just looking at the product. Just like in Circuit City, noone likes to be trailed around by some salesman running his mouth..... > Melvin has phoney credit card numbers, bank account numbers, his own > phoney SSN and SC drivers license numbers, It's probably pretty easy to cook up an obviously phony driver's license number; most states follow a predictable pattern. But are you absolutely sure the SSN doesn't belong to someone? > get about 12 really good, pre-approved credit card offers a month, but I > just trash those. No WONDER the financial institutions are in trouble > giving credit cards with LARGE credit limits out to ficticious people. Well, aside from the fact that pre-approval isn't a guarantee of credit, yeah, I think it's stupid. My 12-year-old son just received his first credit card offer. Woohoo! I still tell the story of an identity theft that wasn't, back in 1998. I lived in Ohio, and back then the SSN's were still, very stupidly, printed right on the driver's licenses; a few years later they were made optional, and I think they've finally Found Clue(tm) and stopped putting them on altogether. Anyhow, I lost my wallet, and someone drove out to Chicago and started applying for instant credit at a bunch of department stores. In my name, of course, using my SSN and driver's license. The big clue was the letter from Carson Pirie Scott, a Chicago-based department store. The only store they've EVER had in Ohio was in Toledo, two hours west of Cleveland, where I lived. And the only reason I'd even HEARD of Carson Pirie Scott was because many years ago, my father was one of their suppliers. The joke was on the thief, though. My credit SUCKED in 1998, and let me tell you, I was NEVER as happy to have bad credit as I was that summer! (If it happened now, I'd be screwed...) After three applications, the loser gave up. But the fact that the department store drones didn't even check my picture against the guy's face bothers me. > No, what upsets me from this scammer is they are following me around the > website just looking at the product. Just like in Circuit City, noone > likes to be trailed around by some salesman running his mouth..... So don't go to the VZW website. I don't. :) SignatureSteve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol >> Melvin has phoney credit card numbers, bank account numbers, his own >> phoney SSN and SC drivers license numbers, > >It's probably pretty easy to cook up an obviously phony driver's license >number; most states follow a predictable pattern. SC issues their numbers in sequential order of application. Presuming Larry got his earlier than 1980, I'd guess his number is < 008100000. So unless he's using a very high number, chances are he's using a valid number that has been assigned to someone. If not, he's using a number that will someday be assigned to someone. >But are you absolutely >sure the SSN doesn't belong to someone? If he uses one that passes the validation test, then again, he's using one that either has been assigned to someone or likely will be assigned to someone. >>> Melvin has phoney credit card numbers, bank account numbers, his own >>> phoney SSN and SC drivers license numbers, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > one that either has been assigned to someone or likely will be > assigned to someone. Ok, let's get something straight. I'm not USING any numbers. Those numbers exist only in my computer registry and are never transmitted to anyone for any purpose. My SC drivers license number only has 7 significant digits from 1966. My number is lots older than 008, it's 0031 Oh, you guys should see a drivers license from SC before WW2! It was a METAL TAG hand stanped out with only a number on it! I found one in a thrift shop for $1 and they didn't know what it was until I told 'em. Way cool. This one's dated 1936! Melvin's SC drivers license number starts with 0000 and is very old. I bet he's DEAD! To put your minds at ease about his SSN, he has my mother's SSN. She died in my arms in 1999 of Parkinson's Disease and could care less. Oh, Melvin also has an old 1966 Navy serial number one number off mine. It belonged to a buddy I went to boot camp with. He died in Vietnam in a river boat firefight in the Mekong Delta. He's not coming back, either. >>>> Melvin has phoney credit card numbers, bank account numbers, his own >>>> phoney SSN and SC drivers license numbers, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >numbers exist only in my computer registry and are never transmitted to >anyone for any purpose. Let's back up a minute. You said: >Melvin has phoney credit card numbers, bank account numbers, his own >phoney SSN and SC drivers license numbers, even two car tags....all [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >net for 20 years. Check his credit rating on Equifax! He's AAA+! He >has no debts and always pays his bills. Which means you are either lying now, or you lied then. So which is it, Lyin' Larry? If you aren't *USING* those numbers, then why are they in your computer? Baiting for what? And how did you "spread" this falsified identity around without using these numbers which you had no lawful right to use? >My SC drivers license number only has 7 >significant digits from 1966. My number is lots older than 008, it's >0031 Yeah, so? What part of "<" (or less than) did you not understand? >Oh, you guys should see a drivers license from SC before WW2! It was a >METAL TAG hand stanped out with only a number on it! I found one in a >thrift shop for $1 and they didn't know what it was until I told 'em. >Way cool. This one's dated 1936! WTF does this have to do with anything? You just trying to deflect attention from how big of a liar you are again. >Melvin's SC drivers license number starts with 0000 and is very old. I >bet he's DEAD! But it likely was issued to someone, and would never be re-issued to anyone else in the future. Theefore, you are still using someone else's DL number, even if they are dead. >To put your minds at ease about his SSN, he has my >mother's SSN. She died in my arms in 1999 of Parkinson's Disease and >could care less. I'll bet SSA would have a different view of that statement. You are still using the SSN of someone else. It really doesn't matter if they are dead or alive, since they never get recycled. >Oh, Melvin also has an old 1966 Navy serial number one number off mine. >It belonged to a buddy I went to boot camp with. He died in Vietnam in >a river boat firefight in the Mekong Delta. He's not coming back, >either. Surprise, surprise! Larry's using someone else's government issued ID number. You are no better than the people who falsify documents for illegal aliens. > The joke was on the thief, though. My credit SUCKED in 1998, and let > me tell you, I was NEVER as happy to have bad credit as I was that > summer! (If it happened now, I'd be screwed...) I love it when some company or other threatens my "credit rating". My credit has been spotless since I was 18...er, ah....1964...(c; That has good points and bad points. Yamaha Motors and their bogus Yamaha Credit Card, which is really a revolving credit scam from Household Retail Services, old Household Finance, said that if I didn't pay them for the defective 1997 Yamaha GP1200 Waverunner PWC I returned to their dealer, who couldn't fix it, under Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act (15USC50 section 2300), they were going to ruin my credit. My lawyer disagreed, of course, and we did everything we could to get the bastards to trash me. He wanted a new house on the beach and I had my eye on a new Mercedes S class sedan. We had their a.s and they knew it. The ski disappeared after we told the tax bureaucrats we returned it, and my credit card pre-approval apps increased unabated. I haven't had a debt since 1991 when my wife left me. She thought, wrongly, all credit cards should be at their limits, the American way. I pay them off before any charges. Chase Bank insisted I take a Chase credit card after checking me out from an online Amazon credit card I let them send for a discount on the N800. Chase wanted to cut Amazon out of the loop, so wanted me to stop using my Bank of America Quantum card I've had for 20 years and start using a Chase Business Card with my little electronics company logo on it and 3% cashback on all purchases. They started me with a $75K line of credit, but soon raised it to $100K after only a month, for what reason remains a mystery. Where would you like to go on the planet, tomorrow...(c; Chase thinks I'm a Micro$oft...(c; If I cared what my credit score was, I'd worry. I don't care and haven't since 1991. The feeling is wonderful....I can live quite comfortably without debt on lots less money and worry. > I haven't had a debt since 1991 when my wife left me. boy, every time you open your mouth, the picture gets clearer. > Chase wanted to cut Amazon out of the > loop, so wanted me to stop using my Bank of America Quantum card I've had > for 20 years and start using a Chase Business Card with my little > electronics company logo on it This one? http://blatherreview.mu.nu/archives/TinFoilHatArea.jpg >I haven't had a debt since 1991 when my wife left me. She finally sobered up, huh? >> The joke was on the thief, though. My credit SUCKED in 1998, and let >> me tell you, I was NEVER as happy to have bad credit as I was that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > credit has been spotless since I was 18...er, ah....1964...(c; That has > good points and bad points. Definitely a double-edged sword. The good points are obvious. The bad points, perhaps not so much. There is the identity-theft angle... lots more at stake when you're up near 750 or 800 than when you're around 400 or 500. Then, you also have to keep a very close eye on your bills and make sure the banks, etc. don't screw up your accounts. (What? Yes, I know. Banks are perfect. Sorry I said anything. :>) SignatureSteve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol |
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