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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Verizon / June 2008

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Permitted uses with Verizon data plans

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Dave Rudisill - 07 Mar 2008 14:33 GMT
I just noticed that Verizon has changed their web site wording regarding
permitted uses.

Note that PERMITTED uses now include "uploading, downloading and
streaming of audio, video and games; and ... Voice over Internet
Protocol (VoIP)."

There is no longer an prohibition on sharing the data conection.

<http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/controller?item=planFirst&action=viewPl
anList&sortOption=priceSort&typeId=5&subTypeId=13&catId=409
>
or
http://tinyurl.com/y6dx66

Signature

Dave

DTC - 07 Mar 2008 15:42 GMT
> I just noticed that Verizon has changed their web site wording regarding
> permitted uses.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> There is no longer an prohibition on sharing the data conection.

I ponder if they see it as a new revenue stream for data overages.
Roughrider50 - 07 Mar 2008 22:34 GMT
>> I just noticed that Verizon has changed their web site wording regarding
>> permitted uses.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>I ponder if they see it as a new revenue stream for data overages.

I signed up awhile back for the "unlimited" broadband plan for $59 a
month. Am I now limited to 5G's?
DTC - 07 Mar 2008 22:57 GMT
> I signed up awhile back for the "unlimited" broadband plan for $59 a
> month. Am I now limited to 5G's?

Only if you don't bother to complain to your state attorney general.
Jar-Jar Binks - 08 Mar 2008 02:26 GMT
Just cancel your service and get a Sprint Data Plan that is truely unlimted
for the same price. It is that simple.

>> I signed up awhile back for the "unlimited" broadband plan for $59 a
>> month. Am I now limited to 5G's?
>
> Only if you don't bother to complain to your state attorney general.
George - 08 Mar 2008 12:13 GMT
> Just cancel your service and get a Sprint Data Plan that is truely unlimted
> for the same price. It is that simple.
>
>>> I signed up awhile back for the "unlimited" broadband plan for $59 a
>>> month. Am I now limited to 5G's?
>> Only if you don't bother to complain to your state attorney general.

And then what? Perhaps you brush your teeth with sprint toothpaste and
had sprint cereal for breakfast but sprint does have a crappy network in
the places where I travel and doesn't even have EvDO within 100 miles of
here.
Pegleg - 08 Mar 2008 13:46 GMT
>>> I signed up awhile back for the "unlimited" broadband plan for $59 a
>>> month. Am I now limited to 5G's?

You were limited to 5G's when you signed up for the plan...you just
didn't read the fine print!

Sprint service sucks!  Also, they are possibly going to be spinning off
Nextel and there is a possibility that they will be bought by T-Mobile.
They lost almost 29Billion $$$$ last year and the customer churn is
astronomical.
TeddeLI - 08 Mar 2008 22:35 GMT
Jar-Jar Binks explained :
> Just cancel your service and get a Sprint Data Plan that is truely unlimted
> for the same price. It is that simple.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>
>> Only if you don't bother to complain to your state attorney general.

You are more annoying than Larry.
Tom J - 08 Mar 2008 00:48 GMT
>>> I just noticed that Verizon has changed their web site wording
>>> regarding permitted uses.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> I signed up awhile back for the "unlimited" broadband plan for $59 a
> month. Am I now limited to 5G's?

If it had no spelled out limitations in the signed contract, I'd be
knocking on the doors of the consumer affairs department in my state
if that happened to me!!

How many of you can put your hands on the copy of your wtitten
contract and read exactly what it says? That what counts - what's in
that signed contract.

Tom J
btw - worked for me
DTC - 08 Mar 2008 01:49 GMT
> How many of you can put your hands on the copy of your wtitten
> contract and read exactly what it says? That what counts - what's in
> that signed contract.

I scan mine.
David - 07 Mar 2008 22:16 GMT

> Note that PERMITTED uses now include "uploading, downloading and
> streaming of audio, video and games; and ... Voice over Internet
> Protocol (VoIP)."

At least as compared to a year ago when I started my data plan, they also
go in to *MUCH* more detail on what is considered "unacceptable".

I was curious as to what they had to say now about older plans, like mine,
that specifically state "unlimited" or otherwise didn't clearly establish a
limit.  For that, they now include this little ditty:

"If your usage on a Data Plan or Feature that does not include a specific
monthly Megabyte allowance or that is not billed on a pay–as–you–use basis
exceeds 5 Gigabytes per account line during any billing period, we reserve
the right to reduce throughput speed to a maximum of approximately 200
Kilobits per second for up to thirty days."
Dennis Ferguson - 07 Mar 2008 23:01 GMT
>  
>> Note that PERMITTED uses now include "uploading, downloading and
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> the right to reduce throughput speed to a maximum of approximately 200
> Kilobits per second for up to thirty days."

In general the Customer Agreement which applies to you is the one you
signed (I always save a copy) rather than the most current one.  Verizon
can't change the terms of your Customer Agreement unless they inform you
and give you a chance to decline.  If you signed the old "Unlimited"
agreement that's what applies to you.

Note that as part of the settlement of that deceptive marketing investigation
I think Verizon agreed to remove the limitations in the Customer Agreement
from existing customers who'd signed up for an "Unlimited" plan, and since
they haven't done anything to change the terms for older customers my guess
is that this is still the case and your "Unlimited" service is, in fact,
unlimited.  I have the same plan and I ran well past 5 GB one month without
any consequences.

You'll lose it if you buy new discounted equipment or do something else
which requires a new agreement, but for now my guess is that you don't have
to worry about the usage restrictions current customers sign up for.

Dennis Ferguson
David - 08 Mar 2008 11:17 GMT
> You'll lose it if you buy new discounted equipment or do something
> else which requires a new agreement, but for now my guess is that you
> don't have to worry about the usage restrictions current customers
> sign up for.

Until I saw the OP's message, I was unaware that Verizon had changed their
plans any.  His post and this paragraph of your post explain, at least in
my mind, the slew of "upgrade now for free" offers I've been getting in the
mail even though I'm still a good year away from NE2 on that account.

I had been contemplating accepting one of the offers and moving to a USB
dongle.  I think that in light of these posts, however, I'll keep my
current PC card...and the contract that goes with it.
Xenu - 20 Jun 2008 06:24 GMT
>>  
>>> Note that PERMITTED uses now include "uploading, downloading and
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
>Dennis Ferguson

I have been on unlimited for several years and will be quite pissed if
that gets changed. Hell, I can blow through 5G worth of downloads in
one day.
Larry - 20 Jun 2008 16:53 GMT
Xenu <Xenu@mars.gov> wrote in news:kjfm549sb44cfi4vk45brfsatne2po0uoi@
4ax.com:

> I have been on unlimited for several years and will be quite pissed if
> that gets changed. Hell, I can blow through 5G worth of downloads in
> one day.

Every Alltel customer hopes to be grandfathered as the dispicable Verizon
bastards take over our company.  I'll be amazed if they let it run like
it is now....phones with no restrictions, no featured
disabled....internet service without blocked ports and unlimited data,
especially over Bluetooth DUN to tethered devices Verizon customers are
not allowed to use....Unrestricted access to your own pictures, media,
memory cards without having to hack past the company's tampering trying
to force you to email your own pictures to you and buy their shitty
ringtones and Vcast.

Alltel has assured us our features and my regional sellphone plan is safe
until the end of the contract, but they balked when I tried to pull an
end run and have my contract, a real contract, extended out 10 years
BEFORE the dispicable Verizon monster takes over the accounts to screw it
all up....locking me into what I want for 10 more years.

....but, at least, I tried....(c;

Just for fun, let's look EXACTLY at what it says, TODAY:

"DATA PLANS AND FEATURES

Data Plans and Features (such as NationalAccess, BroadbandAccess,
GlobalAccess, Push to Talk, and certain VZEmail services) may ONLY be
used with wireless devices for the following purposes: (i) Internet
browsing; (ii) email; and (iii) intranet access (including access to
corporate intranets, email, and individual productivity applications like
customer relationship management, sales force, and field service
automation). The Data Plans and Features MAY NOT be used for any other
purpose. Examples of prohibited uses include, without limitation, the
following: (i) continuous uploading, downloading or streaming of audio or
video programming or games; (ii) server devices or host computer
applications, including, but not limited to, Web camera posts or
broadcasts, automatic data feeds, automated machine-to-machine
connections or peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing; or (iii) as a substitute
or backup for private lines or dedicated data connections. This means, by
way of example only, that checking email, surfing the Internet,
downloading legally acquired songs, and/or visiting corporate intranets
is permitted, but downloading movies using P2P file sharing services
and/or redirecting television signals for viewing on laptops is
prohibited. A person engaged in prohibited uses, continuously for one
hour, could typically use 100 to 200 MBs, or, if engaged in prohibited
uses for 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, could use more than 5 GBs in a
month."

[So, nothing has changed.  You may ONLY use data for EMAIL or WEBPAGES or
CONNECTION TO THE COMPANY INTRANET!  Any other use is SPECIFICALLY
forbidden: "The Data Plans and Features MAY NOT be used for any other
purpose."  If you do anything else with them, you're in violation of the
AUP and may be terminated for cause at their whim if caught.  Curiously,
they've added "downloading legally acquired songs" AFTER forbidding it!  
I suppose this was done without proper proofreading to open a hole so you
could BUY (Remember this IS a SELLphone) music from Verizon or iTunes,
etc.  We wouldn't want to hold up someone's PROFITS, especially from
companies big enough, like Apple, to sue Verizon, right?]

Back to what Verizon says:
"For individual use only and not for resale. We reserve the right to
protect our network from harm, which may impact legitimate data flows. We
reserve the right to limit throughput or amount of data transferred, and
to deny or terminate service, without notice, to anyone we believe is
using an Data Plan or Feature in any manner prohibited above or whose
usage adversely impacts our network or service levels. Anyone using more
than 5 GB per line in a given month is presumed to be using the service
in a manner prohibited above, and we reserve the right to immediately
terminate the service of any such person without notice. We also reserve
the right to terminate service upon expiration of Customer Agreement
term."

[SO, if some company hack notices you using more than 5GB/month, he can
terminate your service without notifying you.  It simply stops.  You are
presumed guilty, even if you've just been watching the spam movies every
commercial webpage is completely saturated with eating up your 5GB/month
LIMIT.  "anyone we believe is..." means they don't have to prove you were
doing something against this AUP, so you can be cut off just because some
hack doesn't like you.  You "are presumed" to be guilty.  Isn't that the
new American way?]

Ok, now Verizon says further:
"Data sessions automatically terminate after 24 hours of activity. Data
session is inactive when no data is being transferred. Data session may
seem inactive while data is actively being transferred to device, or may
seem active when it is actually cached and not transferring data. You
MUST press or click END or DISCONNECT button to ensure that session
disconnects and charges cease. Thirdparty applications may automatically
reinitiate data sessions without you pressing or clicking SEND or CONNECT
button. For the Palm® TreoTM 650, the only way to disconnect your data
session is to press the home key until you see “All” or “System,” then
select the “Prefs” icon, then select “Network” from the drop-down list,
and then “Disconnect.” You may be able to send or receive voice calls
when your data session is inactive. When this occurs, charges apply
simultaneously for voice calls in accordance with your Calling Plan. You
are responsible for maintaining virus protection when accessing service."

[Simple translation - IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT if you go over 5GB and get your
sorry a.s cut off.  Treos are constantly checking email, checking for
software upgrades, all eating up your 5GB limit.]

Then, Verizon goes on to say:
"PDA/smartphone and BlackBerry® Plans: These VZEmail plans cannot be
used: (1) for access to the Internet, intranets, or other data networks
except as the device’s native applications and capabilities permit,
unless you subscribe to BroadbandAccess Connect; or (2) for any
applications that tether your device to laptops or personal computers
other than for use of the Wireless Sync or the BlackBerry solution,
unless you subscribe to BroadbandAccess Connect."

[Translation - We've turned off all tethering unless you buy an aircard
plan for $60/month for ONLY 5GB/mo.  No more cheap tethering plans from
your smartphone to your laptop.

This is what makes me think we Alltel customers will very soon be SCREWED
out of our tethered unlimited data we enjoy at the moment.  If you have a
smartphone, Alltel charges $10/mo for tethered data!  Ordinary phones
capable of BT tethering are charged $25/mo for unlimited tethered data.  
This is forbidden on Verizon to Verizon customers.  Why should they go on
allowing it for the acquired Alltel customers?]

Then, more Verizon funny business for blackberries:
"PDA/smartphone and BlackBerry Megabyte Features: Megabyte allowance and
charges for kilobytes over the monthly allowance apply to 1xRTT and EV-DO
data sessions, which are rounded to next full kilobyte at end of each
billing cycle. Only total of kilobytes transmitted above allowance each
billing cycle may appear on bill. You are responsible for all charges,
including all data sent and received and “overhead” whether or not you or
your recipients actually receive the data. Overhead is all data that is
in addition to user-transmitted data, such as control, operational and
routing instructions, error-checking characters as well as
retransmissions of user-data messages that are received in error. Any
unused portion of the megabyte allowance is lost.

Wireless Sync: Compatible wireless device required. The monthly allowance
applies only to 1xRTT and EV-DO data transmissions, not to voice or other
(Quick 2 Net or dial-up) data transmissions. When traveling outside of
the National Enhanced Services Rate and Coverage Area, you may be charged
at the “other data” rate for data calls. Customers with devices that
support Quick 2 Net service will be billed minutes of use or “other data”
rate according to their Calling Plan. In order to use Wireless Sync, your
PC Monitor or Wireless Sync Enterprise Server must be on and in a
condition to receive your corporate email. Wireless Sync software updates
will be sent to your device and will be charged as a data call."

[You have to pay us for every byte, even if you never receive it.  We can
constantly bombard your phone with data and charge you like hell for it
and you have to pay for it....OR ELSE!]

Then, they go on screwing Blackberry customers:
"The BlackBerry Solution from Verizon Wireless: The wireless data
capability of the BlackBerry device functions only within the National
Enhanced Services Rate and Coverage Area. Verizon Wireless NationalAccess
service is not available with the BlackBerry solution. With the
BlackBerry solution, the first 2 kilobytes (KB) of each email are
initially received on the BlackBerry device and you can simply request to
receive additional 2KB increments. Some email attachments (Microsoft®
Office Word, Excel®, PowerPoint®, Corel® WordPerfect®, Adobe® PDF, and
ASCII text) are delivered to the BlackBerry device when requested by the
end user. ZIP file browsing is available with BlackBerry Device Software
v3.7. With BlackBerry Device Software v4.0, an HTML Internet browser has
been added to the service in addition to full wireless PIM (Calendar,
Contacts, Notes&Tasks) synchronization when using the BlackBerry device
with a BlackBerry Enterprise Server.TM Graphics in emails and attachments
are not delivered to the BlackBerry device. When the BlackBerry device
reaches its memory storage capacity, email stored on the device will
automatically be deleted from it, starting with the oldest emails first.
BlackBerry Desktop Software using BlackBerry Desktop Redirector only
supports Microsoft Exchange environments. Up to ten POP3/IMAP and ISP
email accounts are supported through use of the BlackBerry Internet
Service.TM

[Evidently, many Blackberry features cannot be simply shut down at the
carrier's whim, rendering Blackberrys as useless as other phones Verizon
sells all hobbled up.  So, we'll charge them by the KB the old fashioned
way.]

And, of course, all this means nothing because we can screw you at any
time:
"Verizon Wireless Calling Plans, Rate and Coverage Areas, rates,
agreement provisions, business practices, procedures and policies are
subject to change as specified in the Customer Agreement."

------------------------But wait, there's more!---------------------

After reading and digesting what the lawyers wrote you CAN do, with the
threat of being cut off.....on one place....there's CONFLICTING
INFORMATION in other places!

http://b2b.vzw.com/productsservices/wirelessinternet/broadbandaccessconne
ct.html

It says:
"BroadbandAccess Connect Features
(NationalAccess service included)
 Required Equipment    

With a BroadbandAccess Connect-capable smartphone or BlackBerry device
$15
With Nationwide Email or Unlimited Data Feature added to an eligible
calling plan

$30
With unlimited VZEmail plan or Web and Email for BlackBerry plan or
feature
 Monthly Allowance    
5 GB (5,120 MB)

 Per MB Rate After
 Allowance    
$0.49

-----or-------

With a BroadbandAccess Connect-capable handset
 Monthly Access Fee    
$59.99
 Monthly Allowance    
5 GB (5,120 MB)

Per MB Rate After
 Allowance    
$0.49"

[Which DIRECTLY contradicts the threats of being cut off if you go over
5GB/month!

But, again, all this is tied up, very neatly, to keep the BUSINESS
customers from being cut off at 5GB/month with yet another legal
document:
http://b2b.vzw.com/broadband/bba_terms.html

I suppose about the 2nd BUSINESS client they cut off at 5GB, that client,
someone like IBM or Micro$oft, told them they'd cancel all 25,826
Sellphones if Verizon didn't turn the damned data service back on in the
next 60 seconds.....so this was unacceptable to the company bean
counters.

So, you CAN go over 5GB IF you're willing to pay them 50 cents/megabyte,
which is if my high school math serves me well, $500/Gigabyte....a figure
I find kind of excessive and punative, don't you?

If I have to go from $25 for unlimited data on Alltel to $60 for 5GB on
Verizon's overpriced nonsense, you can bet your a.s I'll be off Verizon
AGAIN within the hour.
Nota Clu - 20 Jun 2008 18:36 GMT
> I have been on unlimited for several years and will be quite pissed if
> that gets changed. Hell, I can blow through 5G worth of downloads in
> one day.

In a day on a cell phone !!
Larry - 20 Jun 2008 23:52 GMT
"Nota Clu" <tyro01NOT@hotmail.com> wrote in news:KUR6k.16$gE.6
@trnddc07:

>> I have been on unlimited for several years and will be quite pissed if
>> that gets changed. Hell, I can blow through 5G worth of downloads in
>> one day.
>
> In a day on a cell phone !!

Let's be optimistic and say he averages 800Kpbs = 100KB/sec x 3600
sec/hour = 360MB/hr x 24 = 8.64GB/day.  So, it's quite possible to
blow through more than 5GB in a day...no problem.
Larry - 08 Mar 2008 06:58 GMT
> There is no longer an prohibition on sharing the data conection.

The P2P file sharing prohibition is still there...

If I were charging:

Monthly Allowance      Monthly Access      Per MB Rate
After Allowance     Plan Includes
    5 GB
    $59.99     $0.49     Data access for Internet browsing, email, or
Intranet access
    50 MB
    $39.99     $0.99

from 49c to 99c per MEGAbyte over what you pay an exhorbitant amount for in
the first place...really restricted service...I'd certainly want you to
stream and download huge files and use Skype 24/7, too!

They'll make lots more money off Skype's 110Kbps on your phone calls than
they will off your Sellphone direct calls at these awful rates!

110kbps = 13.75KB/sec x 60 = .825MB/min x .49 = 40.4c/minute after you use
up your 5000MB for $60 (1.2c/MB).  .825MB/min x .012 = about a
penny/minute, 60c/hour until you exceed the 5GB....then it gets EXPENSIVE!

See why they took off those restrictions?  It's a SELLphone, SELLing
bandwidth per megabyte!

Alltel.....$25/mo for unlimited data tethered via BT or USB is a
bargain....
Elmo P. Shagnasty - 08 Mar 2008 09:29 GMT
> Alltel.....$25/mo for unlimited data tethered via BT or USB is a
> bargain....

So?

Can I get in on that deal?

Oh, I'm sorry.  This isn't a newgroup for the 5000 people who can get
regional Alltel service.  This is a newsgroup for people who can get
VERIZON service.

It's nice that your local garage will change your oil for fifteen
dollars and give you a backrub while you wait, but that doesn't help the
rest of the world.

Shut the f.ck up about Alltel, Larry.  No one here cares.
Dave Rudisill - 08 Mar 2008 15:10 GMT
>Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

>> There is no longer an prohibition on sharing the data conection.
>
>The P2P file sharing prohibition is still there...

But no prohibition on sharing a data connection.

I mentioned it because some folks believe that routers like the KR-1,
CTR-350, etc. violate the terms of service.

Signature

Dave

Larry - 08 Mar 2008 15:59 GMT
> I mentioned it because some folks believe that routers like the KR-1,
> CTR-350, etc. violate the terms of service.

Actually with the "threatens the system" sub-subclauses, anything you do
can be construed as a ToS violation.....

They got that covered...(c;

Now that Verizon has eliminated unlimited service, everything should go at
50c/megabyte ($US500/gigabyte).  At $500/GB, I'd encourage you to keep the
modem at its WIDE OPEN position, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week!  I might
even turn off the damned voice calls if they upset your data downloading,
at $500/GB!

At $500/GB, I'd have line powered HOME modems for $10, distributed at
WalMart, to see how many $500/GB stupids I could hook into downloading
24/7.  The modem would come with a DVD loaded with the latest server, P2P,
usenet clients to maximum usage at $500/GB.....  Service would include the
Unlimited, 10-simultaneous-ports, usenetserver.com usenet binary service
with autoinstalled Grabit to help you download continuously...at $500/GB.

At $500/GB, I'd have some really serious bandwidth available.  Every DVD
would come with 20 flavors of broadband VoIP, to hell with the voice
customers, we're talking BIG MONEY........at $500/GB, that is.

Anyone using >50GB/month would get a free Voyager, opened up with bluetooth
DUN so you can tether your data-hungry monster laptop, some really serious
"free" streaming audio and video apps, all ready to download more $500/GB
data at the single click of the button.

At $500/GB, Verizon has nothing to lose and EVERYTHING to gain!
Limiting bandwidth hog services just became idiotic!
 
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