Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Verizon / June 2008
Permitted uses with Verizon data plans
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Dave Rudisill - 07 Mar 2008 14:33 GMT I just noticed that Verizon has changed their web site wording regarding permitted uses.
Note that PERMITTED uses now include "uploading, downloading and streaming of audio, video and games; and ... Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP)."
There is no longer an prohibition on sharing the data conection.
<http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/controller?item=planFirst&action=viewPl anList&sortOption=priceSort&typeId=5&subTypeId=13&catId=409> or http://tinyurl.com/y6dx66
 Signature Dave
DTC - 07 Mar 2008 15:42 GMT > I just noticed that Verizon has changed their web site wording regarding > permitted uses. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > There is no longer an prohibition on sharing the data conection. I ponder if they see it as a new revenue stream for data overages.
Roughrider50 - 07 Mar 2008 22:34 GMT >> I just noticed that Verizon has changed their web site wording regarding >> permitted uses. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >I ponder if they see it as a new revenue stream for data overages. I signed up awhile back for the "unlimited" broadband plan for $59 a month. Am I now limited to 5G's?
DTC - 07 Mar 2008 22:57 GMT > I signed up awhile back for the "unlimited" broadband plan for $59 a > month. Am I now limited to 5G's? Only if you don't bother to complain to your state attorney general.
Jar-Jar Binks - 08 Mar 2008 02:26 GMT Just cancel your service and get a Sprint Data Plan that is truely unlimted for the same price. It is that simple.
>> I signed up awhile back for the "unlimited" broadband plan for $59 a >> month. Am I now limited to 5G's? > > Only if you don't bother to complain to your state attorney general. George - 08 Mar 2008 12:13 GMT > Just cancel your service and get a Sprint Data Plan that is truely unlimted > for the same price. It is that simple. > >>> I signed up awhile back for the "unlimited" broadband plan for $59 a >>> month. Am I now limited to 5G's? >> Only if you don't bother to complain to your state attorney general. And then what? Perhaps you brush your teeth with sprint toothpaste and had sprint cereal for breakfast but sprint does have a crappy network in the places where I travel and doesn't even have EvDO within 100 miles of here.
Pegleg - 08 Mar 2008 13:46 GMT >>> I signed up awhile back for the "unlimited" broadband plan for $59 a >>> month. Am I now limited to 5G's? You were limited to 5G's when you signed up for the plan...you just didn't read the fine print!
Sprint service sucks! Also, they are possibly going to be spinning off Nextel and there is a possibility that they will be bought by T-Mobile. They lost almost 29Billion $$$$ last year and the customer churn is astronomical.
TeddeLI - 08 Mar 2008 22:35 GMT Jar-Jar Binks explained :
> Just cancel your service and get a Sprint Data Plan that is truely unlimted > for the same price. It is that simple. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >> Only if you don't bother to complain to your state attorney general. You are more annoying than Larry.
Tom J - 08 Mar 2008 00:48 GMT >>> I just noticed that Verizon has changed their web site wording >>> regarding permitted uses. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I signed up awhile back for the "unlimited" broadband plan for $59 a > month. Am I now limited to 5G's? If it had no spelled out limitations in the signed contract, I'd be knocking on the doors of the consumer affairs department in my state if that happened to me!!
How many of you can put your hands on the copy of your wtitten contract and read exactly what it says? That what counts - what's in that signed contract.
Tom J btw - worked for me
DTC - 08 Mar 2008 01:49 GMT > How many of you can put your hands on the copy of your wtitten > contract and read exactly what it says? That what counts - what's in > that signed contract. I scan mine.
David - 07 Mar 2008 22:16 GMT
> Note that PERMITTED uses now include "uploading, downloading and > streaming of audio, video and games; and ... Voice over Internet > Protocol (VoIP)." At least as compared to a year ago when I started my data plan, they also go in to *MUCH* more detail on what is considered "unacceptable".
I was curious as to what they had to say now about older plans, like mine, that specifically state "unlimited" or otherwise didn't clearly establish a limit. For that, they now include this little ditty:
"If your usage on a Data Plan or Feature that does not include a specific monthly Megabyte allowance or that is not billed on a pay–as–you–use basis exceeds 5 Gigabytes per account line during any billing period, we reserve the right to reduce throughput speed to a maximum of approximately 200 Kilobits per second for up to thirty days."
Dennis Ferguson - 07 Mar 2008 23:01 GMT > >> Note that PERMITTED uses now include "uploading, downloading and [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > the right to reduce throughput speed to a maximum of approximately 200 > Kilobits per second for up to thirty days." In general the Customer Agreement which applies to you is the one you signed (I always save a copy) rather than the most current one. Verizon can't change the terms of your Customer Agreement unless they inform you and give you a chance to decline. If you signed the old "Unlimited" agreement that's what applies to you.
Note that as part of the settlement of that deceptive marketing investigation I think Verizon agreed to remove the limitations in the Customer Agreement from existing customers who'd signed up for an "Unlimited" plan, and since they haven't done anything to change the terms for older customers my guess is that this is still the case and your "Unlimited" service is, in fact, unlimited. I have the same plan and I ran well past 5 GB one month without any consequences.
You'll lose it if you buy new discounted equipment or do something else which requires a new agreement, but for now my guess is that you don't have to worry about the usage restrictions current customers sign up for.
Dennis Ferguson
David - 08 Mar 2008 11:17 GMT > You'll lose it if you buy new discounted equipment or do something > else which requires a new agreement, but for now my guess is that you > don't have to worry about the usage restrictions current customers > sign up for. Until I saw the OP's message, I was unaware that Verizon had changed their plans any. His post and this paragraph of your post explain, at least in my mind, the slew of "upgrade now for free" offers I've been getting in the mail even though I'm still a good year away from NE2 on that account.
I had been contemplating accepting one of the offers and moving to a USB dongle. I think that in light of these posts, however, I'll keep my current PC card...and the contract that goes with it.
Xenu - 20 Jun 2008 06:24 GMT >> >>> Note that PERMITTED uses now include "uploading, downloading and [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > >Dennis Ferguson I have been on unlimited for several years and will be quite pissed if that gets changed. Hell, I can blow through 5G worth of downloads in one day.
Larry - 20 Jun 2008 16:53 GMT Xenu <Xenu@mars.gov> wrote in news:kjfm549sb44cfi4vk45brfsatne2po0uoi@ 4ax.com:
> I have been on unlimited for several years and will be quite pissed if > that gets changed. Hell, I can blow through 5G worth of downloads in > one day. Every Alltel customer hopes to be grandfathered as the dispicable Verizon bastards take over our company. I'll be amazed if they let it run like it is now....phones with no restrictions, no featured disabled....internet service without blocked ports and unlimited data, especially over Bluetooth DUN to tethered devices Verizon customers are not allowed to use....Unrestricted access to your own pictures, media, memory cards without having to hack past the company's tampering trying to force you to email your own pictures to you and buy their shitty ringtones and Vcast.
Alltel has assured us our features and my regional sellphone plan is safe until the end of the contract, but they balked when I tried to pull an end run and have my contract, a real contract, extended out 10 years BEFORE the dispicable Verizon monster takes over the accounts to screw it all up....locking me into what I want for 10 more years.
....but, at least, I tried....(c;
Just for fun, let's look EXACTLY at what it says, TODAY:
"DATA PLANS AND FEATURES
Data Plans and Features (such as NationalAccess, BroadbandAccess, GlobalAccess, Push to Talk, and certain VZEmail services) may ONLY be used with wireless devices for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing; (ii) email; and (iii) intranet access (including access to corporate intranets, email, and individual productivity applications like customer relationship management, sales force, and field service automation). The Data Plans and Features MAY NOT be used for any other purpose. Examples of prohibited uses include, without limitation, the following: (i) continuous uploading, downloading or streaming of audio or video programming or games; (ii) server devices or host computer applications, including, but not limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, automated machine-to-machine connections or peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing; or (iii) as a substitute or backup for private lines or dedicated data connections. This means, by way of example only, that checking email, surfing the Internet, downloading legally acquired songs, and/or visiting corporate intranets is permitted, but downloading movies using P2P file sharing services and/or redirecting television signals for viewing on laptops is prohibited. A person engaged in prohibited uses, continuously for one hour, could typically use 100 to 200 MBs, or, if engaged in prohibited uses for 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, could use more than 5 GBs in a month."
[So, nothing has changed. You may ONLY use data for EMAIL or WEBPAGES or CONNECTION TO THE COMPANY INTRANET! Any other use is SPECIFICALLY forbidden: "The Data Plans and Features MAY NOT be used for any other purpose." If you do anything else with them, you're in violation of the AUP and may be terminated for cause at their whim if caught. Curiously, they've added "downloading legally acquired songs" AFTER forbidding it! I suppose this was done without proper proofreading to open a hole so you could BUY (Remember this IS a SELLphone) music from Verizon or iTunes, etc. We wouldn't want to hold up someone's PROFITS, especially from companies big enough, like Apple, to sue Verizon, right?]
Back to what Verizon says: "For individual use only and not for resale. We reserve the right to protect our network from harm, which may impact legitimate data flows. We reserve the right to limit throughput or amount of data transferred, and to deny or terminate service, without notice, to anyone we believe is using an Data Plan or Feature in any manner prohibited above or whose usage adversely impacts our network or service levels. Anyone using more than 5 GB per line in a given month is presumed to be using the service in a manner prohibited above, and we reserve the right to immediately terminate the service of any such person without notice. We also reserve the right to terminate service upon expiration of Customer Agreement term."
[SO, if some company hack notices you using more than 5GB/month, he can terminate your service without notifying you. It simply stops. You are presumed guilty, even if you've just been watching the spam movies every commercial webpage is completely saturated with eating up your 5GB/month LIMIT. "anyone we believe is..." means they don't have to prove you were doing something against this AUP, so you can be cut off just because some hack doesn't like you. You "are presumed" to be guilty. Isn't that the new American way?]
Ok, now Verizon says further: "Data sessions automatically terminate after 24 hours of activity. Data session is inactive when no data is being transferred. Data session may seem inactive while data is actively being transferred to device, or may seem active when it is actually cached and not transferring data. You MUST press or click END or DISCONNECT button to ensure that session disconnects and charges cease. Thirdparty applications may automatically reinitiate data sessions without you pressing or clicking SEND or CONNECT button. For the Palm® TreoTM 650, the only way to disconnect your data session is to press the home key until you see “All” or “System,” then select the “Prefs” icon, then select “Network” from the drop-down list, and then “Disconnect.” You may be able to send or receive voice calls when your data session is inactive. When this occurs, charges apply simultaneously for voice calls in accordance with your Calling Plan. You are responsible for maintaining virus protection when accessing service."
[Simple translation - IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT if you go over 5GB and get your sorry a.s cut off. Treos are constantly checking email, checking for software upgrades, all eating up your 5GB limit.]
Then, Verizon goes on to say: "PDA/smartphone and BlackBerry® Plans: These VZEmail plans cannot be used: (1) for access to the Internet, intranets, or other data networks except as the device’s native applications and capabilities permit, unless you subscribe to BroadbandAccess Connect; or (2) for any applications that tether your device to laptops or personal computers other than for use of the Wireless Sync or the BlackBerry solution, unless you subscribe to BroadbandAccess Connect."
[Translation - We've turned off all tethering unless you buy an aircard plan for $60/month for ONLY 5GB/mo. No more cheap tethering plans from your smartphone to your laptop.
This is what makes me think we Alltel customers will very soon be SCREWED out of our tethered unlimited data we enjoy at the moment. If you have a smartphone, Alltel charges $10/mo for tethered data! Ordinary phones capable of BT tethering are charged $25/mo for unlimited tethered data. This is forbidden on Verizon to Verizon customers. Why should they go on allowing it for the acquired Alltel customers?]
Then, more Verizon funny business for blackberries: "PDA/smartphone and BlackBerry Megabyte Features: Megabyte allowance and charges for kilobytes over the monthly allowance apply to 1xRTT and EV-DO data sessions, which are rounded to next full kilobyte at end of each billing cycle. Only total of kilobytes transmitted above allowance each billing cycle may appear on bill. You are responsible for all charges, including all data sent and received and “overhead” whether or not you or your recipients actually receive the data. Overhead is all data that is in addition to user-transmitted data, such as control, operational and routing instructions, error-checking characters as well as retransmissions of user-data messages that are received in error. Any unused portion of the megabyte allowance is lost.
Wireless Sync: Compatible wireless device required. The monthly allowance applies only to 1xRTT and EV-DO data transmissions, not to voice or other (Quick 2 Net or dial-up) data transmissions. When traveling outside of the National Enhanced Services Rate and Coverage Area, you may be charged at the “other data” rate for data calls. Customers with devices that support Quick 2 Net service will be billed minutes of use or “other data” rate according to their Calling Plan. In order to use Wireless Sync, your PC Monitor or Wireless Sync Enterprise Server must be on and in a condition to receive your corporate email. Wireless Sync software updates will be sent to your device and will be charged as a data call."
[You have to pay us for every byte, even if you never receive it. We can constantly bombard your phone with data and charge you like hell for it and you have to pay for it....OR ELSE!]
Then, they go on screwing Blackberry customers: "The BlackBerry Solution from Verizon Wireless: The wireless data capability of the BlackBerry device functions only within the National Enhanced Services Rate and Coverage Area. Verizon Wireless NationalAccess service is not available with the BlackBerry solution. With the BlackBerry solution, the first 2 kilobytes (KB) of each email are initially received on the BlackBerry device and you can simply request to receive additional 2KB increments. Some email attachments (Microsoft® Office Word, Excel®, PowerPoint®, Corel® WordPerfect®, Adobe® PDF, and ASCII text) are delivered to the BlackBerry device when requested by the end user. ZIP file browsing is available with BlackBerry Device Software v3.7. With BlackBerry Device Software v4.0, an HTML Internet browser has been added to the service in addition to full wireless PIM (Calendar, Contacts, Notes&Tasks) synchronization when using the BlackBerry device with a BlackBerry Enterprise Server.TM Graphics in emails and attachments are not delivered to the BlackBerry device. When the BlackBerry device reaches its memory storage capacity, email stored on the device will automatically be deleted from it, starting with the oldest emails first. BlackBerry Desktop Software using BlackBerry Desktop Redirector only supports Microsoft Exchange environments. Up to ten POP3/IMAP and ISP email accounts are supported through use of the BlackBerry Internet Service.TM
[Evidently, many Blackberry features cannot be simply shut down at the carrier's whim, rendering Blackberrys as useless as other phones Verizon sells all hobbled up. So, we'll charge them by the KB the old fashioned way.]
And, of course, all this means nothing because we can screw you at any time: "Verizon Wireless Calling Plans, Rate and Coverage Areas, rates, agreement provisions, business practices, procedures and policies are subject to change as specified in the Customer Agreement."
------------------------But wait, there's more!---------------------
After reading and digesting what the lawyers wrote you CAN do, with the threat of being cut off.....on one place....there's CONFLICTING INFORMATION in other places!
http://b2b.vzw.com/productsservices/wirelessinternet/broadbandaccessconne ct.html
It says: "BroadbandAccess Connect Features (NationalAccess service included) Required Equipment
With a BroadbandAccess Connect-capable smartphone or BlackBerry device $15 With Nationwide Email or Unlimited Data Feature added to an eligible calling plan
$30 With unlimited VZEmail plan or Web and Email for BlackBerry plan or feature Monthly Allowance 5 GB (5,120 MB)
Per MB Rate After Allowance $0.49
-----or-------
With a BroadbandAccess Connect-capable handset Monthly Access Fee $59.99 Monthly Allowance 5 GB (5,120 MB) Per MB Rate After Allowance $0.49"
[Which DIRECTLY contradicts the threats of being cut off if you go over 5GB/month!
But, again, all this is tied up, very neatly, to keep the BUSINESS customers from being cut off at 5GB/month with yet another legal document: http://b2b.vzw.com/broadband/bba_terms.html
I suppose about the 2nd BUSINESS client they cut off at 5GB, that client, someone like IBM or Micro$oft, told them they'd cancel all 25,826 Sellphones if Verizon didn't turn the damned data service back on in the next 60 seconds.....so this was unacceptable to the company bean counters.
So, you CAN go over 5GB IF you're willing to pay them 50 cents/megabyte, which is if my high school math serves me well, $500/Gigabyte....a figure I find kind of excessive and punative, don't you?
If I have to go from $25 for unlimited data on Alltel to $60 for 5GB on Verizon's overpriced nonsense, you can bet your a.s I'll be off Verizon AGAIN within the hour.
Nota Clu - 20 Jun 2008 18:36 GMT > I have been on unlimited for several years and will be quite pissed if > that gets changed. Hell, I can blow through 5G worth of downloads in > one day. In a day on a cell phone !!
Larry - 20 Jun 2008 23:52 GMT "Nota Clu" <tyro01NOT@hotmail.com> wrote in news:KUR6k.16$gE.6 @trnddc07:
>> I have been on unlimited for several years and will be quite pissed if >> that gets changed. Hell, I can blow through 5G worth of downloads in >> one day. > > In a day on a cell phone !! Let's be optimistic and say he averages 800Kpbs = 100KB/sec x 3600 sec/hour = 360MB/hr x 24 = 8.64GB/day. So, it's quite possible to blow through more than 5GB in a day...no problem.
Larry - 08 Mar 2008 06:58 GMT > There is no longer an prohibition on sharing the data conection. The P2P file sharing prohibition is still there...
If I were charging:
Monthly Allowance Monthly Access Per MB Rate After Allowance Plan Includes 5 GB $59.99 $0.49 Data access for Internet browsing, email, or Intranet access 50 MB $39.99 $0.99
from 49c to 99c per MEGAbyte over what you pay an exhorbitant amount for in the first place...really restricted service...I'd certainly want you to stream and download huge files and use Skype 24/7, too!
They'll make lots more money off Skype's 110Kbps on your phone calls than they will off your Sellphone direct calls at these awful rates!
110kbps = 13.75KB/sec x 60 = .825MB/min x .49 = 40.4c/minute after you use up your 5000MB for $60 (1.2c/MB). .825MB/min x .012 = about a penny/minute, 60c/hour until you exceed the 5GB....then it gets EXPENSIVE!
See why they took off those restrictions? It's a SELLphone, SELLing bandwidth per megabyte!
Alltel.....$25/mo for unlimited data tethered via BT or USB is a bargain....
Elmo P. Shagnasty - 08 Mar 2008 09:29 GMT > Alltel.....$25/mo for unlimited data tethered via BT or USB is a > bargain.... So?
Can I get in on that deal?
Oh, I'm sorry. This isn't a newgroup for the 5000 people who can get regional Alltel service. This is a newsgroup for people who can get VERIZON service.
It's nice that your local garage will change your oil for fifteen dollars and give you a backrub while you wait, but that doesn't help the rest of the world.
Shut the f.ck up about Alltel, Larry. No one here cares.
Dave Rudisill - 08 Mar 2008 15:10 GMT >Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:
>> There is no longer an prohibition on sharing the data conection. > >The P2P file sharing prohibition is still there... But no prohibition on sharing a data connection.
I mentioned it because some folks believe that routers like the KR-1, CTR-350, etc. violate the terms of service.
 Signature Dave
Larry - 08 Mar 2008 15:59 GMT > I mentioned it because some folks believe that routers like the KR-1, > CTR-350, etc. violate the terms of service. Actually with the "threatens the system" sub-subclauses, anything you do can be construed as a ToS violation.....
They got that covered...(c;
Now that Verizon has eliminated unlimited service, everything should go at 50c/megabyte ($US500/gigabyte). At $500/GB, I'd encourage you to keep the modem at its WIDE OPEN position, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week! I might even turn off the damned voice calls if they upset your data downloading, at $500/GB!
At $500/GB, I'd have line powered HOME modems for $10, distributed at WalMart, to see how many $500/GB stupids I could hook into downloading 24/7. The modem would come with a DVD loaded with the latest server, P2P, usenet clients to maximum usage at $500/GB..... Service would include the Unlimited, 10-simultaneous-ports, usenetserver.com usenet binary service with autoinstalled Grabit to help you download continuously...at $500/GB.
At $500/GB, I'd have some really serious bandwidth available. Every DVD would come with 20 flavors of broadband VoIP, to hell with the voice customers, we're talking BIG MONEY........at $500/GB, that is.
Anyone using >50GB/month would get a free Voyager, opened up with bluetooth DUN so you can tether your data-hungry monster laptop, some really serious "free" streaming audio and video apps, all ready to download more $500/GB data at the single click of the button.
At $500/GB, Verizon has nothing to lose and EVERYTHING to gain! Limiting bandwidth hog services just became idiotic!
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