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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Verizon / August 2004Verizon -- Bad Business Practices
Hi All, I have been a Verizon customer for 2 years and until recently did not have any complaints about their coverage. However, in the last two months I have been unable to hold a digital signal at my house on both my wife's phone and my phone. I had a friend come over with a new LG6000 (a something 6000) and he couldn't keep a digital signal. I have had no help from Verizon other than saying that they don't guarantee the phone works in the house. I actually went as far as cut off the main ciruict breaker in the house to see if some in the house was causing interference. Regardless, I have just pretty much decided to stop using the cell phone in the house. However, I did get my phone bill this month for myself and my wife and it was triple our normal amount. I really am not sure about some of the calls but instead of disputing that with Verizon, I called to up the plan. However, I am informed if I move to the 800 minute plan, I will have to renew for 2 years. I explained that I am not even picking up a signal in the house these days. Here is the tricky part. I was going to cancel and switch to ATT or Cingular. However, about 6 months after I received my phone, I got my wife one with Verizon on the shared plan. Verizon informed because of this, I extended my contract with Verizon for an additional 13 months. They said even though my phone is out of contract, if I was to switch I would have to pay the $175 cancellation fee. If I change plans, I am stuck with them for another two years. It looks like I am getting screwed no matter what I do. I just feel like if Verizon can no longer get a cell signal to my house, I should at least be able to get out of my contract so I can swtich to someone who will. I am afraid at this point I am just going to pay the $175 to break the contract and NEVER EVER use Verizon again. The thing that really bothers me is how snotty customer support has been. I even told them that I think I might switch to ATT, Cingular, Tmobile, etc. The one guy kept going on about how now cell phone company lets you switch plans in the middle of the month. Unless AT&T changed, they let you change it in the middle of the month and made it retroactive. If you change your plan with Verizon 2 weeks into your cycle and have a 400 minute plan, they prorate so if you are at 250 minutes, they charge you 50 minutes overage at 45 cents per minute before switching plans. That is flat out crap. I found it funny that the customer support guy kept telling me to go to JD Power and see that Verizon was #1 every year. I looked it up on the internet while I was on the phone wiht him. I clicked on the southeast region and Verizon was #4 overall. It just seems that Verzion is becoming too profit oriented and not enough customer oriented. The 800 minute plans costs $59 + 20 per additional phone with nights and weekend at 9pm whereas AT&T is 59 + 9 for the extra phone for 900 minutes with nights and weekends starting at 9. This cluster of having the two different phones on the same plan with different contracts is a complete cluster. Goodbye Verizon. > Hi All, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I have had no help from Verizon other than saying that they don't guarantee > the phone works in the house. ---snip---snip---snip--- Sounds familiar. Read the thread here: http://tinyurl.com/4hvbp Acceptable service for 22 months then the last 2 months service went away. Sounds like they have an equipment problem if it was VZW native. If it was Extended Network their roaming agreement may have been canceled. Have you called and talked to technical support rather than just a CSR. They might be able to figure out what caused your service changed after 22 months. > Hi All, > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > Goodbye Verizon. Soon you'll have people telling you that you should have read the fine print or ask the proper questions before doing anything. Like your going to automatically know what to ask...that's why there is a customer service, but some people here think the customer is %100 liable for ALL their actions even if customer service didn't tell them everything they need to know. > Hi All, > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > Goodbye Verizon. > However, I am informed if I move to the 800 minute plan, I will have to > renew for 2 years. I explained that I am not even picking up a signal in > the house these days. As long as you don't change your base plan, ie AC, NSR, etc., you can move up and down within the plan without extending it. > As long as you don't change your base plan, ie AC, NSR, etc., you can move > up and down within the plan without extending it. This is simply not true. I have called Verizon Wireless at least a half dozen times and they finally admitted that I can move the plan up but I lose my nights and weekends, free mobile to mobile, etc. I don't understand why I cant just move up with the same terms I had when I signed a contract. I am not asking for the new promo. The last CS rep was horrible. I tried to speak to a manager but got the old "My manager isn't in. He will call you Monday." I never got hold of a manager. > > As long as you don't change your base plan, ie AC, NSR, etc., you can move > > up and down within the plan without extending it. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > "My manager isn't in. He will call you Monday." I never got hold of a > manager. You sir, are a LIAR!!!! I have been a verizon dealer for 4 years now, and what you say is absolutely FALSE!!!!!! Then you need to talk to your CS because they have ALL told me the same thing. Please tell me how it is supposed to work so I can call VZW CS and explain it to them. Thanks, FF > > > As long as you don't change your base plan, ie AC, NSR, etc., you can > move [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > You sir, are a LIAR!!!! I have been a verizon dealer for 4 years now, and > what you say is absolutely FALSE!!!!!! As I said before... you are a liar.. I don't HAVE a CS... I ****AM*** one!!!!! Since I have before and am again, telling you differently, your statement below is ANOTHER lie... Obviously **all** cs's haven't told you the same thing, since I am one and am ***NOT*** telling you the same thing. Many/some/most maybe, but no way **all** You can absolutely positively increase the number of minutes on your plan without signing a new contract (even if it is an old grandfathered plan and you are on month 2 month). Even if you have an old grandfather plan, you can increase the minutes without a new plan and contract date, and keep whatever options/active promos you had. Forget the CS people you are talking to, IMO they are either dumb as rocks or lying to you. Go to the website www.verizonwireless.com and see for yourself. Your claims, and what is in print on the verizon website are totally opposite. Since the statements on the verizon website represent the offers from verizon, I'd tend to think they are more truthful/legal than some idiot cs at a local store. There are certain circumstances, for instance if you have an old plan and are now on month 2 month, where the plan may not show up in the cs books or on the website, and that may be confusing the local people, in that case try calling national cs *611 from your cellphone. > Then you need to talk to your CS because they have ALL told me the same > thing. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > You sir, are a LIAR!!!! I have been a verizon dealer for 4 years now, and > > what you say is absolutely FALSE!!!!!! > You can absolutely positively increase the number of minutes on your > plan without signing a new contract (even if it is an old > grandfathered plan and you are on month 2 month). Even if you have an > old grandfather plan, you can increase the minutes without a new plan > and contract date, and keep whatever options/active promos you had. I'm on a grandfathered plan (12 western states one rate); can I reduce my minutes and stay on the same plan, and keep my 3000 nights and weekends? I'm still on contract (until Nov 1st), but plan to renew for another two years when I buy a new phone.  SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Vote for John Kerry. > > You can absolutely positively increase the number of minutes on your > > plan without signing a new contract (even if it is an old [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > weekends? I'm still on contract (until Nov 1st), but plan to renew for > another two years when I buy a new phone. That's where things get a bit dicey, in some markets you can stay on your old plan month 2 month, but you may run into trouble trying to renew (or get a new plan) that no longer exists. Don't know where you are, or what your plan details are, but if you have the old Single Rate West (I'm guessing), some had 8pm start times for nights and weekends, and usually 1000 mins for M2M, and some of the older plans had promos that were good for life rather than the newer ones that are only good for 2 years. If you try and get a phone at a contract price, they will make you get a new 1 or 2 year current contract, and you can lose the goodies from the old contract (that will be on Month 2 Month). Depending on where you are, and what your travel habits are, and of course what the start time is for Nights, you may want to look into local digitalchoice. (gives more local minutes, but if you travel out of the area you get hit with roaming), or keep the plan you have now (if the start time for nights is 8PM instead of 9PM), buy a phone on sale or ebay elsewhere and just activate it. There is one other thing that may apply (fraid I don't know in your instance), some plans (and I can't recall if SRW has it), have free canadian calls included, the new plans don't always have that. > That's where things get a bit dicey, in some markets you can stay on > your old plan month 2 month, but you may run into trouble trying to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > had promos that were good for life rather than the newer ones that > are only good for 2 years. I'm in AZ; I do not have any M2M on it, but I do have a lifetime promo of 3000 night and weekend, starting at 8 PM. Yup, the plan is Single Rate West. > If you try and get a phone at a contract price, they will make you > get a new 1 or 2 year current contract, and you can lose the goodies > from the old contract (that will be on Month 2 Month). When my one-year plan expired two years ago, and I bought a new phone and signed a new contract, I kept the plan intact. When I asked about changing the minutes, they said that I could not change minutes within the plan because they don't offer the plan any more; however, if I didn't make any changes at all, I could keep the plan for as long as I wanted, even when signing a new contract. > Depending on where you are, and what your travel habits are, and of > course what the start time is for Nights, you may want to look into > local digitalchoice. Unfortunately, that doesn't include northern California, and that's where the majority of my travels take me--not that I travel all that much. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Vote for John Kerry. > I'm in AZ; I do not have any M2M on it, but I do have a lifetime promo > of 3000 night and weekend, starting at 8 PM. Yup, the plan is Single > Rate West. It's up to you, but the way I see it is stay with the plan you have/just go month to month, and have 8PM starts, and a lifetime 3000 N&W, or go to a new plan with 9PM starts, unlimited N&W, unlimited M2M. Depends on how important that extra hour (8PM vs 9PM) is to you. If it helps any, I just went for a new plan with 9PM starts and all the unlimited goodies, and take a nap from 8PM to 9PM, but again, that's me, and a lot of my friends are on the east coast so it's a no no to call em at 11 or 12 anyway, and most of my other friends live on the west coast and have verizon phones, so M2M/in-network applied. Being a computer nerd, I use the unlimited nights after 9 to log on to the internet (I'm on at high speed for free at the moment). > It's up to you, but the way I see it is stay with the plan you > have/just go month to month, and have 8PM starts, and a lifetime 3000 > N&W, or go to a new plan with 9PM starts, unlimited N&W, unlimited > M2M. Depends on how important that extra hour (8PM vs 9PM) is to you. It's not that simple; if I go month to month, I can't get the discounts for a new phone. Also, there are holes in no roaming coverage with every plan other than national singlerate; they don't cover a city in my home state that I visit two or three times a year, and national singlerate costs more than I need to spend. So, if they try to force me to change plans when I try to purchase the new phone next week, I'll tell them that I'll switch to another carrier instead--and if they refuse to continue my current plan, I will switch. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Vote for John Kerry. > > It's up to you, but the way I see it is stay with the plan you > > have/just go month to month, and have 8PM starts, and a lifetime 3000 [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > new phone next week, I'll tell them that I'll switch to another carrier > instead--and if they refuse to continue my current plan, I will switch. I hate to say it, but you may want to look into plan 'b's. Your chances of getting a new plan from verizon with 8pm start times is about 0. I've heard a lot of people demand/threaten, but never heard of Verizon caving in. Do any other providers have service in both your area, and where you go? A number of our customers that switched were happy with cingular and rollover. If I get this straight (and sorry I forget a lot), you are happy with what plan you have, but want a subsidized phone? Have you considered just getting a new phone elsewhere (sales/friend/ebay) and keeping your current plan? > I hate to say it, but you may want to look into plan 'b's. Your > chances of getting a new plan from verizon with 8pm start times is > about 0. I don't want to get a new plan; I said that I want to keep my current plan. > I've heard a lot of people demand/threaten, but never heard of > Verizon caving in. It's not a threat or demand; it's simply that if they don't let me keep my current plan, I'll seriously consider switching carriers. > Do any other providers have service in both your area, and where you > go? Absolutely. > If I get this straight (and sorry I forget a lot), you are happy with > what plan you have, but want a subsidized phone? That's right; just as I did two years ago. I got a subsidized phone and kept my plan intact. > Have you considered just getting a new phone elsewhere > (sales/friend/ebay) and keeping your current plan? I considered it and rejected it because the phone costs too much that way. Oh, you haven't answered my other question. Is it possible to keep my current plan and change the number of minutes? You know the plan I have (Western Single Rate, with 3000 night and weekend, no mobile to mobile, and nights start at 8 PM) and where I am (Arizona). So I think you have enough information to answer both questions. I'll repeat the questions again, as a summary: Question 1: Can I buy a subsidized phone (New every two) and keep my current plan intact when the contract expires? (I realize that I would have to sign a new two-year contract.) Question 2: Can I change the number of minutes per month, and otherwise keep the plan intact? (This question is unrelated to the purchase of a new phone.) SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Vote for John Kerry. > You know the plan I have (Western Single Rate, with 3000 night and > weekend, no mobile to mobile, and nights start at 8 PM) and where I am [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > keep the plan intact? (This question is unrelated to the purchase of a > new phone.) To both your questions, no. Unfortunately, while you can make changes on currently offered plans, you can't on plans that are not offered anymore. Since the plan is not offered anyomre, you can't extend it for 2 years and get a subsidized phone either, since the original plan doesn't exist anymore (they only allow your current contract to extend month 2 month after expiration). > Unfortunately, while you can make changes on currently offered plans, > you can't on plans that are not offered anymore. That is what I thought, but it contradicts something you wrote earlier; that's why I asked the question. > Since the plan is not offered anyomre, you can't extend it for 2 > years and get a subsidized phone either, since the original plan > doesn't exist anymore (they only allow your current contract to > extend month 2 month after expiration). That contradicts my experience of two years ago, and the experience of my friend at the beginning of this month. She has the same plan that I have, and renewed her contract on August 4th for another two years without having to change plans. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Vote for John Kerry. > > Unfortunately, while you can make changes on currently offered plans, > > you can't on plans that are not offered anymore. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > have, and renewed her contract on August 4th for another two years > without having to change plans. Sorry, went back to my original post and guess I wasn't clear enuf.. I had typed There are certain circumstances, for instance if you have an old plan and are now on month 2 month, where the plan may not show up in the cs books or on the website, and that may be confusing the local people, in that case try calling national cs *611 from your cellphone. ==================== Some markets do things differently, and a generic/standard answer (without even knowing which market someone is in), doesn't work for all instances. I usually tell people to call *611 and get an answer from corporate, they can pull up the persons account and give definite answers based on what the contract says. Interesting about the extension/free phone on a SRW contract, in my market, it (the computer) won't let me extend/renew any non current plan. From what you said, sounds like your market allows it. Wonder if it has something to do with the time zone stuff? ---snip---snip---snip--- > Question 1: Can I buy a subsidized phone (New every two) and keep my > current plan intact when the contract expires? (I realize that I would > have to sign a new two-year contract.) I don't have your plan, but rather AC/300 with 250 M2M, and 3000 NW, with 8PM night start. (Original 2 year contract started March of 2002) That plan is no longer offered, but I was able to keep it and get a new phone last month using "New Every Two." I did have to "extend" my contract for another two years from the date I got the new phone. > Question 2: Can I change the number of minutes per month, and otherwise > keep the plan intact? (This question is unrelated to the purchase of a > new phone.) For me, in Las Vegas, changing the minutes would have required a new contract. A new contract would have given me 400 prime minutes, unlimited NW, and unlimited IN calls. However, I would have lost the 8PM start for nightime. Living in the Pacific Time Zone, I didn't want to lose that, so I kept my plan as it had been. I qualified for a subsidized phone under New Every Two in either case... as long as I was willing to comit to another 2 years. Dear Peter: You say you are a CS, fantastic, now would you answer Michelle's question? "I'm on a grandfathered plan (12 western states one rate); can I reduce my minutes and stay on the same plan, and keep my 3000 nights and weekends?" dr > > > You can absolutely positively increase the number of minutes on your > > > plan without signing a new contract (even if it is an old [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > weekends? I'm still on contract (until Nov 1st), but plan to renew for > > another two years when I buy a new phone. DOES NOT ANSEWR HER QUESTION: > That's where things get a bit dicey, in some markets you can stay on your > old plan month 2 month, but you may run into trouble trying to renew (or get [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > instance), some plans (and I can't recall if SRW has it), have free canadian > calls included, the new plans don't always have that. > Dear Peter: You say you are a CS, fantastic, now would you answer > Michelle's question? > > "I'm on a grandfathered plan (12 western states one rate); can I reduce > my minutes and stay on the same plan, and keep my 3000 nights and > weekends?" dr Obviously, there were very few details given, I take it you missed my generic reply? Don't know where you are, or what your plan details are, but if you have the old Single Rate West (I'm guessing), some had 8pm start times for nights and weekends, and usually 1000 mins for M2M, and some of the older plans had promos that were good for life rather than the newer ones that are only good for 2 years. Notice the first words... Don't know where you are, or what your plan details are It would be irresponsible to say anything for sure without more details. SRW can start at 8 or 9, and some Local Digital choice will do multi states (6 is the most I have heard, but I suppose more is possible), and wasn't sure about roaming on her older unknown plan. (SRW was no roaming charges in the home area, but local digital choice does have roaming charges (even in the local area)) Sorry that annoys you, but no way will I answer a generic question...That's like answering another question I hear very often (with no details).. What's the best phone? > As I said before... you are a liar.. I don't HAVE a CS... I ****AM*** > one!!!!! I was under the impression that you're not currently working as a VZW rep, and that you used to sell phones, I forget whether for a corporate store or authorized agent. Am I wrong? SignatureJustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/ Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED) Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids. > I was under the impression that you're not currently working as a VZW rep, and > that you used to sell phones, I forget whether for a corporate store or > authorized agent. Am I wrong? Sorry for the confusion, when we wrote before you sent me the phones, I am currently in Vegas on Vacation, but the part I usually don't mention, is that due to a medical problem (just staying on the books for insurance reasons), I doubt I'll live long enuf to ever go back to where I was before, a computer/cellphone repair place in the N Idaho boonies I worked at, and I sold em, specializing in voice and data in rural areas. > This is simply not true. I have called Verizon Wireless at least a half > dozen times and they finally admitted that I can move the plan up but I lose > my nights and weekends, free mobile to mobile, etc. That would only be true if you had a promotional package (for example, the 1000 nationwide free M2M that they were offering last year) and the promotion isn't offered now. What do you have now? SignatureJustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/ Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED) Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids. My current package gives me 400 minutes and 1000 mobile to mobile minutes on my primary phone and 250 minutes on my secondary phone. I have called several times and said that promotion is no longer available and I can change to the 59.99 + 20.00 800 minute plan by either a) signing a new contract or b) paying the 59.99 _ 20.00 and get no nights and weekends and no mobile to mobile. FF > > This is simply not true. I have called Verizon Wireless at least a half > > dozen times and they finally admitted that I can move the plan up but I lose [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > nationwide free M2M that they were offering last year) and the promotion isn't > offered now. What do you have now? I have also been told it would be necessary to extend my contract by 2 years in order to simply change from one rate plan to another. Don't remember seeing this in the customer service agreement. Must be my failing eyes. Earlier this year I wanted to change to a plan with more minutes. I asked a ton of questions if there were any charges or constraints in making the change and was told no problem. This change was simple. After 28 days I decided it wasn't worth the extra cost and tried to change back. VZW cust svc said I would have to extend my contract and would lose the promotional unlimited nights and weekends. I explained this was never described when playing 20 questions with the rep before making the initial change. After a long and very difficult conversation with the rep, they changed me back to my original plan without the contract extension. Why do they make this so difficult? > Hi All, > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > Goodbye Verizon. > making the initial change. After a long and very difficult > conversation with the rep, they changed me back to my original plan > without the contract extension. Why do they make this so difficult? Because most customers will just roll over like a good dog? Because it's the most reliable best cellular network around. They can do anything they want and the anal retentive customer's that use the service let it happen. I'm very happy with Cingular and roll over minutes. Can't beat it. I'm very happy with my T637 phone also...not like Verizon will ever carry anything so good. HA. > I have also been told it would be necessary to extend my contract by 2 years > in order to simply change from one rate plan to another. Don't remember [quoted text clipped - 89 lines] > > > > Goodbye Verizon. >Because it's the most reliable best cellular network around. They can do >anything they want and the anal retentive customer's that use the service >let it happen. I'm very happy with Cingular and roll over minutes. Can't >beat it. I'm very happy with my T637 phone also...not like Verizon will ever >carry anything so good. HA. Isn't alt.cellular.cingular -----------> over that way? Why do you stay here? Well, aside from being a troll, that is. Mike >> Because it's the most reliable best cellular network around. They >> can do anything they want and the anal retentive customer's that use [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Why do you stay here? Well, aside from being a troll, that is. "former" VZW employee? -Quick > >> Because it's the most reliable best cellular network around. They > >> can do anything they want and the anal retentive customer's that use [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > -Quick I didn't get that from his posts, I just figger he is a jerk. >>>> Because it's the most reliable best cellular network around. They >>>> can do anything they want and the anal retentive customer's that [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > I didn't get that from his posts, I just figger he is a jerk. Neither did I but it was the only semi-rational thing that made sense. Or got turned down for a credit check or refused service at some point for some reason... i suppose i was kind of trolling too. sorry, -Quick <snip> > Neither did I but it was the only semi-rational thing that made > sense. Or got turned down for a credit check or refused service > at some point for some reason... i suppose i was kind of trolling > too. sorry, > -Quick But I like your trolling.... :-) any day over the top posting idiot called Killer Madness. He does at certain times have a valid argument but ruins it with the constant whine about the "best cellular network and customers that are stupid" but hey its usenet! Elector Most or all my arguments or points are usually valid. While we keep feeding this company premium prices we don't get much in return. In the last year I have seen more complaints about bad service, disconnects and signal strength. While everyone is dumping their money into this horribly ran company, the other cellular companies are offering excellent benefits that Verizon would only wish they could offer. Who on the Verizon Wireless network wouldn't want roll-over minutes? Who wouldn't want weekends to start on Friday? Benefits like these have NEVER taken place with Verizon nor seem like they ever will. Doesn't that piss anyone off in here? I'm not even a Verizon customer anymore and it pisses me off. I'm still sore I had to pay $175 to cancel my service. Why in the world would a company charge you to cancel service? I know they all do that, but sheesh...to cancel service you have to pay????? I just don't get it. Let's regulate the sh.t out of these companies. > <snip> > > Neither did I but it was the only semi-rational thing that made [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Elector > Most or all You misspelled "none" SignatureJustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/ Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED) Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids. >Most or all my arguments or points are usually valid. While we keep feeding >this company premium prices we don't get much in return. You don't get anything in return. You're not a customer anymore! You're not paying "premium prices" anymore! >Benefits like these have NEVER taken place with Verizon nor seem >like they ever will. Doesn't that piss anyone off in here? Gee, if I was pissed off that VZW doesn't offer 7 PM nights or rollover minutes, I'd probably leave them when the contract was up. Or... > I'm not even a >Verizon customer anymore and it pisses me off. I'm still sore I had to pay >$175 to cancel my service. Why in the world would a company charge you to >cancel service? I know they all do that, but sheesh...to cancel service you >have to pay????? I just don't get it. If you figure out sometime in the next few months that your beloved Cingular service isn't right for you...guess what? You'll be paying such a fee, too. The reason is simple. Cell phone companies spend an enormous amount of money to lure and keep customers. The biggest amount is the phone subsidy. You don't really think that cool phone you got (OK, so it's VZW, maybe it's an OK phone) really is free, do you? Or $100. The cell companies, if you buy a phone at "reduced" pricing or "get it free", subsidize at very least the wholesale cost of the phone. In exchange, they put you on a one year or two year contract. The upshot - they only make back that money if you stay with them and pay them for service. And at some point, they make a profit. Yes, a profit. (They're allowed to make money, ya know...cell phone companies are not charities.) If you leave before they've made the money back, they have to charge you that early termination fee. While I do agree it's probably a pain to get charged an ETF when you're, say, a few days or weeks before the end of your contract (they've likely made back their money at that point), it's what everyone does, as you said. If you don't like it, go get a prepaid phone. End of "troll engagement" session. Mike Strange that the cable company I work for doesn't charge for any equipment except like $5/month for leasing it and still makes money. I wonder how my company can make money without forcing cutstoner's to buy hardware or charge a termination fee? It's called SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAN and we all fall for it. > >Most or all my arguments or points are usually valid. While we keep feeding > >this company premium prices we don't get much in return. [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Mike > Strange that the cable company I work for doesn't charge for any equipment > except like $5/month for leasing it and still makes money. I wonder how my > company can make money without forcing cutstoner's to buy hardware or charge > a termination fee? How? By raising prices much faster than the rate of inflation, overcharging their customers, charging an arm and a leg for installation and service calls, and forcing customers to take options that they may not necessarily want or need because of the monopolistic nature of the cable business. None of this would apply to the cellular industry, which is yet another good reason not to compare the two. Jesus, another idiot that thinks the cable companies prices are governed by the cable company. Public Utility is ALL over the cable companies a.s...checking out every price/rate we have. We are much more regulated and watched over then any wireless company out there. Also, it's not the cable company that increases the rates...call NBC, ABC, DISCOVERY, HBO...and see what they say when you complain. > > Strange that the cable company I work for doesn't charge for any equipment > > except like $5/month for leasing it and still makes money. I wonder how my [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > of this would apply to the cellular industry, which is yet another good > reason not to compare the two. > Jesus, another idiot that thinks the cable companies prices are governed by > the cable company. Public Utility is ALL over the cable companies > a.s...checking out every price/rate we have. We are much more regulated and > watched over then any wireless company out there. Also, it's not the cable > company that increases the rates...call NBC, ABC, DISCOVERY, HBO...and see > what they say when you complain. The idiot is the one living in fantasy land. Cable price increases are not regulated by any agency, per order of the FCC deregulation. The industry was DEREGULATED some time ago. While PUC may take complaints, they have no power, which is why increases cross state lines many times, and pricing is similar across state lines. The fact that they have dumped billions over the last 15 years into lobbying organizations is surprisingly missing from your arguments. Could that explain the lack of monopoly breakups in the industry, and explain the quick UNREGULATED rise in pricing? The fact is, you are not watched over more than the cellular companies, and as an industry rate worse than cellular in Customer Satisfaction in all surveys. If cable operated in a competitive market (and not as monopolies), the landscape would be much different, and most of today's companies would disappear- they wouldn't know how to react to competition. killer@nospam.net (Killer Madness) posted: >Strange that the cable company I work for > doesn't charge for any equipment except like > $5/month for leasing it and still makes money. > I wonder how my company can make money > without forcing cutstoner's to buy hardware or > charge a termination fee? When a customer terminates, the cable company takes back the equipment and gives it to another customer. It suffers very little wear and tear sitting in a clean room, for the most part untouched, on top of your TV. On the other hand, would you want to use a leased cell phone that some unknown person(s) before you had breathed on, puked on, maybe dropped into the toilet, and subjected to weather extremes? > I'm still sore I had to pay $175 to cancel my service. Why in the > world would a company charge you to cancel service? I know they all > do that, but sheesh...to cancel service you have to pay????? I just > don't get it. Because you signed a contract saying that you would pay $175 if you cancelled before the contract expired. Because they gave you huge discounts on the phone for signing that contract. When you signed up, you agreed to pay them $175 if you cancelled the contract prematurely, so why are you sore that you had to do it? Don't you honor your commitments? SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Vote for John Kerry. > > I'm still sore I had to pay $175 to cancel my service. Why in the > > world would a company charge you to cancel service? I know they all [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > contract prematurely, so why are you sore that you had to do it? Don't > you honor your commitments? I understand the cell phone companies have to make their money back for the costs of the phone. However, I just feel like they have gone crazy on contract renewels. I can gurantee VZW has made a ton of money off me. I am forced to the pay the 175 even though I have been with them over 2 years with 2 phones on the plan. I will go over my minutes and pay 190 a month (as opposed to my normal $60 dollar bill) even though I can't use VZW at my house anymore. If I up the minutes, I have to renew my plan for 2 years since I am out of contract. If that happens, that means I will have to pay $350 to break the contract for my cell and my wifes. I have contacted VZW over and over and have got resposnes like "My Manager is not in today. I will have them call you Monday, Tuesday, etc." I never received a call back. I tried emailing them and explain the scenario. I just got back a generic letter that stated procedures for who to call even though I emailed VZW email customer support. The part that needs to be regulated is the fact that VZW biggest selling point is "You can change your plan any month and have any promotions of a new customer." This really isn't true. You are really just signing a new contract. My coverage with VZW was very good for over 2 years. I don't understand why no one can be reasonable about this scenario where service no longer is possible here yet VZW will do nothing to help. I am afraid I will never be a customer of them ever again. I have had Sprint, Cingular, and AT&T. They all have their bad points also but I never felt so screwed over by any of them. It is sad that I am hoping for federal regulation on these contract renewels. I would rather pay full price for the phone myself and not have a contract. FF > The part that needs to be regulated is the fact that VZW biggest > selling point is "You can change your plan any month and have any > promotions of a new customer." This really isn't true. You are > really just signing a new contract. Exactly, it is true. If it were not true it might go something like this: Cus: "I am on the AC 400 plan and I want to go to the AC 800 plan" CSR: "You have a 2 year contract for the AC 400 plan and if you want to change plans you will incur an early termination fee to terminate your current plan." Get it? There are NO promotions only available to new customers. Other providers (can't remember which) have promotions that are only available to new customers. What part isn't true? I agree that there is fine print related to changing plans *within* your contract period. If you take any *promotions* with the new plan then you will extend your contract period. -Quick >> The part that needs to be regulated is the fact that VZW biggest >> selling point is "You can change your plan any month and have any [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > -Quick What the guy meant was is that if you the customer make a change in service then Verizon extends your contract for that period. You still can get that 800 minute plan but it should only be for the initial period and it should not be any extension since I am paying more for the service plan changes. But Verizon will tell you that you have to have a contract. Now if you are on a month to month (like myself) even though Verizon states you can change plans at anytime the difference is you will lose the promos and features you had with the old plan and would be just like a new customer since they want you to be under contract. In this I don't agree. Promotions are added value services which if you look at the account pages for Verizon you will see that a customer can purchase Mobile Web, Text Messaging, and other features for a cost or free and that it does not extend any contracts. Why would a guy (like me) purchase a $4.99 500 text promo and then get locked into a contract when for a dollar more I can purchase 600 text messages? Promotions should not extend any contracts. Anyone who signs a contract for 1-2 years to "PAY" verizon $6 a month more for that service should not own a cell phone. Figure it out. a) Month to Month-No ETF b) Buy regular text or other services with no contracts or extensions. c) Remove those features and pay no more and stay month-to-month. or Verizon suckers you like this: If you add these features or promos you will have: a) No Month to Month -Pay ETF b) Buy promo mobile web, text and other services sign 1-2 year contract. c) Drop Text or Mobile Web and pay $175 since you don't want to be on contract. Now you tell me is that stupid? I would say it is. And you can quote me on that. Elector > What the guy meant was is that if you the customer make a change in > service then Verizon extends your contract for that period. You still > can get that 800 minute plan but it should only be for the initial > period and it should not be any extension since I am paying more for > the service plan changes. And this is how it works. By the way, paying more is not relevant. You could just as well be going from an 800 to a 400 and paying less. > But Verizon will tell you that you have to have a contract. We are talking about *extending* your contract period aren't we? This would imply that you are in a contract and have not reached the initial term yet. If not, you are mixing different issues here. > Now if you are on a month to month (like myself) > even though Verizon states you can change plans at anytime the > difference is you will lose the promos and features you had with the > old plan and would be just like a new customer since they want you to > be under contract. In this I don't agree. Fine. This is a different issue than what the other guy said was "not true" and should be regulated? On the other hand, this *is* how it works when you change plans within the initial contract period (or used to). You can change plans, without extending your contract, provided you don't take any promotions with the plan you are moving to. If you do take promotions you will have to extend your contract date. You are not charged any fees (like an early termination fee) to change plans. > Promotions are added value services which if you look at the account > pages for Verizon you will see that a customer can purchase Mobile [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > "PAY" verizon $6 a month more for that service should not own a cell > phone. Figure it out. errrr... please... what does this have to do with what VZW advertises and the OP says is not true? > a) Month to Month-No ETF > b) Buy regular text or other services with no contracts or extensions. > c) Remove those features and pay no more and stay month-to-month. Yea, fine, regular features are not promos. > or > Verizon suckers you like this: If you add these features or promos [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > b) Buy promo mobile web, text and other services sign 1-2 year > contract. key work here is "promo" > c) Drop Text or Mobile Web and pay $175 since you don't want to be on > contract. What!?!? If you break your contract there is an early termination fee... I think that's pretty clear. I think the point you are making is that if you take a promo it requires you to be under contract. right? If you have a problem with the early termination fee for breaking a contract then that is a different issue. "Promo" is short for "promotion". The implication is that it is a "Sale", "Limited time offer", "Incentive" (for what? for signing a contract), "Not the normal pricing", "Not the normal plan structure". People most often take the promos because they are a "good deal". I agree that many also fail to differentiate between regular base plans and the promotional plans or add-ons. It's pretty clearly marked as promotional on all the plan charts. They have a separate column for it. I guess people get used to it and it doesn't register. Much like many think cell phones cost $50. -Quick > Now you tell me is that stupid? I would say it is. And you can quote > me on that. > > Elector <snip> >> But Verizon will tell you that you have to have a contract. > > We are talking about *extending* your contract period aren't we? > This would imply that you are in a contract and have not reached > the initial term yet. If not, you are mixing different issues here. No we are talking about if you have a contract or not. Makes no difference. When you call in to make changes or purchase text messaging, mobile web, etc. the customer service folks *lie* and say the only way to get this or that is via a 1-2 year contract or extension. It is quite clear. >> Now if you are on a month to month (like myself) >> even though Verizon states you can change plans at anytime the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> to >> be under contract. In this I don't agree. <Snip> >> Promotions are added value services which if you look at the >> account [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > advertises > and the OP says is not true? It has to do with what Verizon tells a customer. What is not true is that purchasing a text message package (Promo or not), Mobile Web, an accessory etc. "Does Not make you have to sign a contract" I have said this many times before. It is the *FALSE* information from the online sales reps or store clerks that cause this mess. The original poster said he was on a *Month to Month* therefor he was wondering if he bought another phone (Out right) would he lose his plan and options and he does not. But Verizon told him that he had to sign another 1-2 year contract to keep his current plan and goodies. *Again this is totally false on Verizons part* he can keep his month to month and buy any damn phone he wants at his own cost. Yes if he takes them up on a subsidized price for a phone the contract should be in play, but not the plan or features themselves. If he just gets a new phone then he can stay on the plan he has had all along and Verizon has no business to try and trick him into signing for his service. They gave him nothing. Why would there be a need for a contract? >> a) Month to Month-No ETF >> b) Buy regular text or other services with no contracts or [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > key work here is "promo" "Promo can be had without any contracts or extensions" I have done it as recent as a few months ago. >> c) Drop Text or Mobile Web and pay $175 since you don't want to be >> on [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >> >> Elector The point that was being made is, when the original poster wanted to buy his phone outright / off contract plan (Month to Month) Verizon is telling him that he needs to sign another contract. Which is totally false. He does not lose his plan because of his month to month status. As for my promo statement was that Verizon would like to coax you into thinking you need a new contract for these promos (existing customers do not need to sign a contract, however I was just reading a bill insert and it states that you will sign a 1-2 year agreement subjected to credit approval and other restrictions apply (New Customers) I was referring to the poster being lied to and then stuck in a contract he did not want nor had to have and now faces an ETF of $175 because of the deceit of the sales force at verizon (I don't mean all sales are deceitful but the ones that are dishonest know who they are). In that case no ETF should be paid due to fraud. Elector Quick, my apologies. I just noticed I am replying to two separate threads. I am mixing them up. Your correct this poster is wanting to leave because he cannot get signal strength in his home and wants to barter with Verizon & Cingular. I will try and read them a little more closely in the future :-( Elector > I was referring to the poster being lied to and then > stuck in a contract he did not want nor had to have > and now faces an ETF of $175 .... Please separate the issues. Issue #1) Customer is told they need to sign/extend a contract to get a feature/add-on/change plans. Issue #2) You have to pay a $175 ETF to break a contract. The *only* way your implication above holds water is if the customer was UNKNOWINGLY entered into a contract. It is one thing to say "if you want this you have to sign a contract". It is quite another to to say "No problem, we will add that feature to your account" and later the customer finds they are under contract or that it has been extended. You are implying the later. OK? -Quick >> I was referring to the poster being lied to and then >> stuck in a contract he did not want nor had to have [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > -Quick No you are missing the point. A customer does not need to *sign a contract to change plans or add a feature* Verizon is stating this to many folks here and it is not true. I have no problem separating facts (threads are a different story, ha ha) You would not have to pay an ETF (For a contract that never should have been a contract to begin with) since the plan change or accessory purchase or text message package does not require a *Contract or extension of a contract* No contract means no ETF. Try and think of this now, you the customer are buying a service for more money then you did before so now you have to have a contract for that privilege of paying more? No that is not kosher now is it? For that added feature or plan change. Elector >>> I was referring to the poster being lied to and then >>> stuck in a contract he did not want nor had to have [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > that privilege of paying more? No that is not kosher now is it? For > that added feature or plan change. "Kosher"? Yes. Good deal? No. For the sake of argument, lets assume this is the company policy. There is no deception or fraud here. That is my only point. Your argument is "This is the way it should be". *That* is a different issue. My turn for an analogy :). I mow your lawn. I mow your neighbor's lawn. The neighbor added the optional bush trimming for an additional $5/month (that was the *only* change). You ask to add on the optional bush trimming. I tell you that you have to commit to 2 years of mowing service to add on the optional bush trimming for an additional $5/month. Fraud? No. Deception? No. Now, *if* I had told you that you could add optional services at any time for only the cost of the service and no additional obligation when I originally contracted for the mowing then that could be fraud and/or deceptive sales practices. ---> The fact that there is an ETF is totally irrevelant to the issue <-- ** You are told that you have to commit to get the optional service. 1) You decline to commit and don't get the service. The terms of the original deal have been violated and your damages are the value of the service. 2) You agree to commit and get the service. The terms of the original deal have been violated (if you persue it). But you *agreed* the the change in terms. This is the big difference. I agree with everything you say but not with the extent of the violation. Again, you agreed to a contract and so the ETF is not the issue here. better? -Quick <snip> > better? > -Quick Much...I loved that lawn analogy. And I have a friend that owns a landscaping company and I read it to him on the phone and he said that it was the best laugh he ever had. Elector Dude, you can be with this company since they opened doors and you won't get any special attention. If you pay over $500 EACH month on your bill they still will charge you $175 NO MATTER WHAT, even though they've made a %1000 profit with you. Things will eventually change...when customer's get sick of all the sh.t out there. > > > I'm still sore I had to pay $175 to cancel my service. Why in the > > > world would a company charge you to cancel service? I know they all [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > FF FF, if you can no longer get a signal at your house, why do you want to up the minutes? Have you tried other carriers at your house to see if *their* signals get through? I stay here to try and remove the brainwashing all the commercials and "CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW" crap that's been burned into your head thinking Verizon is the best network around. Ya know, for some Verizon Wireless is terrible where other companies are fine. So, I'll stick around.... > >Because it's the most reliable best cellular network around. They can do > >anything they want and the anal retentive customer's that use the service [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Mike >I stay here to try and remove the brainwashing all the commercials and "CAN >YOU HEAR ME NOW" crap that's been burned into your head thinking Verizon is >the best network around. Ya know, for some Verizon Wireless is terrible >where other companies are fine. So, I'll stick around.... Here I go, arguing with the troll again...oh, well, I'm bored... Two things: 1) Why do you care if I am, in your words, "brainwashed", that VZW has the best network around? For what it's worth, I *generally* (on a nationwide coverage basis) believe that. Why is it any skin off your back? You're not paying my VZW bill. 2) For some, VZW is fine and other companies may or may not suit their needs. Why do you care? Mike, who should learn not to engage the troll... "The answer to a fool is slience." >>I stay here to try and remove the brainwashing all the commercials and >>"CAN [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Mike, who should learn not to engage the troll... I am a verizon customer and have changed my plan over and over again. The only time that I have had to lengthen my contract is if I want to take a promo plan that they are offering at the time. I have even changed my plan right before the end of the billing cycle to not have to pay .40 a minute on all my over minutes and then change back the next month. It seem to me that you and the reps aren't seeing eye to eye on what you need done. I have had a couple problems with Verizon but all in all its worked out the best. Verizon has the best/largest network and you always have to pay a premium for the best. Cingular and T-mobile offer some advantages and better pricing, but why? Becuase there networks is smaller and they need to get more market share out of the peopel that they can service. I am sure that if you switch all in all you will be disappointed. > Hi All, > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > Goodbye Verizon. |
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