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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Verizon / October 2004New after 2
Yippie.. I can finally take advantage of Verizon's new-after-2 feature to get a new phone. I am quite happy with my Moto v60i but I really would appreciate a phone with at least speaker phone capability. I went on the web site for 'upgrade phone' but all of the phones available to me via this method did not have speaker phone capability. Anyone have any suggestions as to the good/popular phones that Verizon has? Thanks. Walter >Yippie.. >I can finally take advantage of Verizon's new-after-2 feature to get a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Thanks. >Walter I recently upgraded to an LG VX4500 which does have speakerphone and is available in VZ's plan. B >I recently upgraded to an LG VX4500 which does have speakerphone and >is available in VZ's plan. Didn't I read a while back that the 4500 isn't available in all markets anymore? If the OP can get one from somewhere, he should be alright. He just might not be able to buy it new from VZW. I stopped in a VZW store today in NY. They had the LG VX4500 there. Another 'browser' there said he never had luck with LG phones and heard others had problems too.... Thanks, Walter > >I recently upgraded to an LG VX4500 which does have speakerphone and > >is available in VZ's plan. > > Didn't I read a while back that the 4500 isn't available in all > markets anymore? If the OP can get one from somewhere, he should be > alright. He just might not be able to buy it new from VZW. >I went on the web site for 'upgrade phone' but all of the phones >available to me via this method did not have speaker phone capability. >Anyone have any suggestions as to the good/popular phones that Verizon >has? I'm "told" that Kyocera is supposed to release one soon, but you know how rumors start.:) The more I think about it I will probably not take up VZ with their new-every-2 stuff. If I do then that locks me in for another 2 year contract I believe. I think I'm better off getting a phone off of Ebay and just using/keeping my current plan which I think, as it supposedly ended on 9/27, has defaulted to a one year renewal. Now to look for speaker phones..... Thanks, Walter > >I went on the web site for 'upgrade phone' but all of the phones > >available to me via this method did not have speaker phone capability. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I'm "told" that Kyocera is supposed to release one soon, but you know > how rumors start.:) >The more I think about it I will probably not take up VZ with their >new-every-2 stuff. If I do then that locks me in for another 2 year >contract I believe. If I re-sign, I'll just pay the higher price for the phone just to get a one year contract. I think I'm done with 2 year deals, too. >I think I'm better off getting a phone off of Ebay and just using/keeping my >current plan which I think, as it supposedly ended on 9/27, has defaulted to >a one year renewal. No, you are now on month to month. No annual renewal. Unless you had special promotions that ended with the initial contract period, you can stay on your current plan (switching phones on and off of it at will online) with its features for as long as you like. >Now to look for speaker phones..... Good luck. When you look on Ebay, I hear it makes it much easier if the phone was originally a VZW phone. That way they can't say they won't/can't support the phone on their network. >>The more I think about it I will probably not take up VZ with their >>new-every-2 stuff. If I do then that locks me in for another 2 year >>contract I believe. > > If I re-sign, I'll just pay the higher price for the phone just to get > a one year contract. I think I'm done with 2 year deals, too. Why, you going somewhere other than Verizon? >> If I re-sign, I'll just pay the higher price for the phone just to >get >> a one year contract. I think I'm done with 2 year deals, too. > >Why, you going somewhere other than Verizon? Strongly considering Alltel. I want a new Kyocera, but not the crap VZW is carrying now. I don't want any flippers or cameras, just the standard Kyocera feature set in a candy bar format. I couldn't care less about a color display, but could live with it, especially if it has speakerphone capability. >>I went on the web site for 'upgrade phone' but all of the phones >>available to me via this method did not have speaker phone capability. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I'm "told" that Kyocera is supposed to release one soon, but you know > how rumors start.:) Kyocera already has one on the market. The "slider" has a speakerphone in it. Jeff Personally the "new every 2" doesn't sound like a good deal at all to me. The way I read it it says that after 2 years your contract is up and they will give you the same deal as a new customer on a new phone if you sign up for another 2 year contract. So then how is that different from how it was before? Before after your 2 year contract was up you could continue doing what you are doing or you could close your account and sign up as a new customer again getting the same deal as a new customer. So..... what's new except now they have a name for it and call it a "deal". > Personally the "new every 2" doesn't sound like a good deal at all to > me. The way I read it it says that after 2 years your contract is up > and they will give you the same deal as a new customer on a new phone > if you sign up for another 2 year contract. It's not the same deal. It's the subsidized "with contract" phone price that a new customer would get, PLUS a $100 credit towards that discounted price. So if a phone's $100 "with activation," or say $300 without it, it'd be a free phone for you on the new-every-two deal, but $100 for the new customer.  SignatureGarner R. Miller Clifton Park, NY =USA= >> Personally the "new every 2" doesn't sound like a good deal at all to >> me. The way I read it it says that after 2 years your contract is up [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >without it, it'd be a free phone for you on the new-every-two deal, but >$100 for the new customer. Ohhhhh Well that's different then. That is a better deal. >Personally the "new every 2" doesn't sound like a good deal at all to >me. The way I read it it says that after 2 years your contract is up [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >again getting the same deal as a new customer. So..... what's new >except now they have a name for it and call it a "deal". There are two different deals here. 1) When your contract (one or two years) is up, you can buy a phone at the new-customer price. 2) After you have bought a phone with a two-year contract and have been on a qualifying plan (at least $34.99/mo, I believe) the entire two years, at the end of the two years, you will get an additional up to $100 off the new-customer price on the purchase of a new phone, as long as you agree to another two-year contract. That is, $100 off if the phone costs more than $100, or the phone is free otherwise. This is "new every 2". >>Personally the "new every 2" doesn't sound like a good deal at all to >>me. The way I read it it says that after 2 years your contract is up [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >agree to another two-year contract. That is, $100 off if the phone costs >more than $100, or the phone is free otherwise. This is "new every 2". Sounds more like new after committing to 4, then new every 2. >>> Personally the "new every 2" doesn't sound like a good deal at all >>> to me. The way I read it it says that after 2 years your contract [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Sounds more like new after committing to 4, then new every 2. Yea, kind of... You do get the 2 yr. contract price on the equipment when you initially sign up (as opposed to the 1 yr. subsidized price). Then you get the 2 yr. contract price (instead of 1 yr. or 0 yr. subsidized price when you agree to the second contract. If you actually do all the math (correctly) amortizing costs over time it works out to a much better deal. You need to consider probabilities. If you have been with VZW for at least a year and are planning to continue with VZW what is the probability that you are really going to want to switch within the next year? next 2 years? I've been with VZW for at least 10 years? (it was GTE Mobile back then) with a 2 month ordeal with Cingular in the middle there somewhere (VZW was still holding my account for me so I just reactivated it when I came back). I have no plans to move out of the area. I have no reason to believe I will have a compelling reason to switch in the next 2 years. I do believe that I will want and be able to afford cell service for the next 2 years (in case of disaster I can afford the ETF). It would be pretty silly for me not to take the 2 yr. contract. -Quick At the end of the 2 year contract does the new contract have to begin immediately to get the $100 off? Or can I go month-to-month for awhile and then sign a new 2 year contract with the $100 credit? > >>> Personally the "new every 2" doesn't sound like a good deal at all > >>> to me. The way I read it it says that after 2 years your contract [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > -Quick > At the end of the 2 year contract does the new contract have to begin > immediately to get the $100 off? Or can I go month-to-month for awhile > and > then sign a new 2 year contract with the $100 credit? Doing a search at the VerizonWireless site on "new every two", I found this info at http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/HowToControllerServlet?path=featureDetail&fea tureId=1845. According to this, if you were signed up for New Every Two after 11/25/02, you must take advantage of the promotion within 6 months of becoming eligible. Harold Thanks Harold. > > At the end of the 2 year contract does the new contract have to begin > > immediately to get the $100 off? Or can I go month-to-month for awhile [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Doing a search at the VerizonWireless site on "new every two", I found this > info at http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/HowToControllerServlet?path=featureDetail &featureId=1845. > According to this, if you were signed up for New Every Two after 11/25/02, > you must take advantage of the promotion within 6 months of becoming > eligible. > > Harold > At the end of the 2 year contract does the new contract have to begin > immediately to get the $100 off? Or can I go month-to-month for > awhile and then sign a new 2 year contract with the $100 credit? You can go month to month for however long you want, and then get the new every two price; it doesn't have to be immediately. But you can get it up to two months before your contract ends, i.e., 1 year and 10 months. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Vote for John Kerry. > You can go month to month for however long you want, and then get the > new every two price; it doesn't have to be immediately. My error; for however long you want, up to six months, unless you enrolled in the program before November 2002. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Vote for John Kerry. >If you actually do all the math (correctly) amortizing costs over time it >works out to a much better deal. You need to consider probabilities. That's where the math gets me. When I find a phone I like, I don't mind keeping it well past my contract expiration. I'm not one to rush out and buy the latest, greatest new phones chock full of bugs. >> If you actually do all the math (correctly) amortizing costs over >> time it works out to a much better deal. You need to consider [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > mind keeping it well past my contract expiration. I'm not one to rush > out and buy the latest, greatest new phones chock full of bugs. Sure, just go month-to-month. But if you are going to sign a contract it is usually better to sign the 2yr than 1yr. I'm on one extreme. Been with them for more than 10 yrs. Can't see any reason that I won't be with them for the next 2 years. *If* I was to need new equipment I'd take the 2yr price. The main thing you are balancing it against is the ETF. Even without the NewAny2 the phones are usually $35 less for 2yr than 1yr. That effectively brings the ETF down to $140. I think it's clear that the discount price is worth a 1yr committment. So we're only talking about the second year. If this is not your first experience with VZW then you are probably happy with the current service. This reduces the reasons for leaving to life changes, unusually good deals elsewhere, and a couple of others. If you're there for another year the probability that you'll be there for 2 yrs is pretty good. So the ETF is $140. Minimun "maintenance" plan is $??/month. The effective ETF tapers off the last 4 or 5 months of your contract. So just with the above that second year of committment is a lot less risk than most figure. -Quick >>If you actually do all the math (correctly) amortizing costs over time it >>works out to a much better deal. You need to consider probabilities. > > That's where the math gets me. When I find a phone I like, I don't > mind keeping it well past my contract expiration. I'm not one to rush > out and buy the latest, greatest new phones chock full of bugs. For me, I don't always want a new phone either, but I started adding up the accesory costs (Mobile office kit, desktop charger, car charger, case, wireless headset, Cellsocket, etc. About $659 bucks worth of stuff that I would have to throw out for $100 credit on a new phone....) Let's see, new PDA/Phone $559 but $100 credit = $459, plus $659 for accessories..... hmmmmm by spending $1118, I can save $100.... Not much of a deal.... Seems to me that people never factor in the costs of what accessories they already have when they look into a new phone. Did make an interesting deal with a friend of mine, he wasn't eligible but cracked the display on his phone and was buying another. I used the credit for a new phone for him and he paid me the money. >>> If you actually do all the math (correctly) amortizing costs over >>> time it works out to a much better deal. You need to consider [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > eligible but cracked the display on his phone and was buying another. > I used the credit for a new phone for him and he paid me the money. That is another point. VZW doesn't lock their phones. With some effort you can sell it on eBay or elsewhere. Even if you don't want the new equipment you should be able to sell it for enough to cover the ETF. -Quick > Personally the "new every 2" doesn't sound like a good deal at all to > me. The way I read it it says that after 2 years your contract is up [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > again getting the same deal as a new customer. So..... what's new > except now they have a name for it and call it a "deal". But, you would have to change your phone number. Not very convenient to me. I would prefer to keep my phone number and just settle for their deal. Jeff > Personally the "new every 2" doesn't sound like a good deal at all to > me. The way I read it it says that after 2 years your contract is up > and they will give you the same deal as a new customer on a new phone > if you sign up for another 2 year contract. No, that's not what it says. What it says is that they will give you that same deal, and in addition, take $100 off the price of the phone. So, for instance, when I bought a V710 at the beginning of September, the full price was $519; the one-year-contract price was $419, and the two-year contract price was $319. I paid $219 because I got $100 off that $319 price. And I'll be getting a $70 rebate, so my effective price will be $149. (But I paid sales tax on $219.) SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Vote for John Kerry. >> Personally the "new every 2" doesn't sound like a good deal at all to >> me. The way I read it it says that after 2 years your contract is up [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > that $319 price. And I'll be getting a $70 rebate, so my effective > price will be $149. (But I paid sales tax on $219.) Check again. I think you may have paid tax on $519. They have to charge tax on the retail price of the phone. Not the discounted price. -Quick >>> Personally the "new every 2" doesn't sound like a good deal at all to >>> me. The way I read it it says that after 2 years your contract is up [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Check again. I think you may have paid tax on $519. They have to > charge tax on the retail price of the phone. Not the discounted price. Incorrect. The "retail price" means nothing. The price you pay tax on is the price you actually pay for the phone (before any mail-in rebate). If a car's MSRP is $30,000, and you end up agreeing with the dealer to pay $27,000, do you pay sales tax on $30,000? >> Check again. I think you may have paid tax on $519. They have to >> charge tax on the retail price of the phone. Not the discounted [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >agreeing with the dealer to pay $27,000, do you pay sales tax on >$30,000? When you buy a car you aren't also committing to a 2 year service plan. With a cell phone, they discount the price of the phone *only* when you commit to the service plan, and in doing so what they are really doing is building in part of the price of the phone into the plan term costs. So the state requires that they charge you tax on the full retail price of the phone. jc Actually it depends on what state you are in. In Pennsylvania you pay tax on the discounted price. In California you pay tax on the unsubsidized price. Other states may vary. >>>Check again. I think you may have paid tax on $519. They have to >>>charge tax on the retail price of the phone. Not the discounted [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > jc >>>> Personally the "new every 2" doesn't sound like a good deal at all >>>> to me. The way I read it it says that after 2 years your contract [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > agreeing with the dealer to pay $27,000, do you pay sales tax on > $30,000? I guess it's a state thing? I'll garuantee that here in CA you are taxed on the MSRP of the phone. *Many* years ago they had the completely "free" phones when you signed a contract. Then they made them charge for the phone so they could collect tax. That led to the $1 phones. Now they have to tax on full retail value. Maybe your state is different? -Quick >>>>> Personally the "new every 2" doesn't sound like a good deal at all >>>>> to me. The way I read it it says that after 2 years your contract [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > -Quick Do you pay tax on the MSRP of everything or just cell phones? Does this include any item which is "ON SALE"? Then there are some items which are always are sold for less than the MSRP. >>>>>> Personally the "new every 2" doesn't sound like a good deal at >>>>>> all to me. The way I read it it says that after 2 years your [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > Then there are some items which are always are sold for less than the > MSRP. OK... forget about "MSRP". In the context of subsidized cell phones lets use the terms "full price" and "subsidized price". The state wants to get tax on what an item is sold for. That is what the state considers "full price". Notice that you can't get a "subsidized" phone without signing a contract. <- this is important. You can get most anything on sale. You pay tax on the sale price (that is the "full price" while the item is on sale). NOW if some establishment were to say "*if* you agree to [something] we will sell you this item at that cost ("subsidized price") otherwise it costs this cost ("full price"). The establishment has placed the value of [something] at the difference between the "full price" and the "subsidized price". The state wants the tax due on what was sold you. When you get a subsidized cell phone the provider has simply moved that cost somewhere else. Your commitment to buy their service for a period of time is worth something to them. Does that make it any clearer? or were you simply looking to pick nits. -Quick >>>>>>> Personally the "new every 2" doesn't sound like a good deal at >>>>>>> all to me. The way I read it it says that after 2 years your [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > > -Quick Thanks for the clarification. I was just thinking of it as a reduced price. Now it makes sense. >The state wants to get tax on what an item is sold for. >That is what the state considers "full price". [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Does that make it any clearer? or were you simply looking to >pick nits. I'll do a bit of nit picking. They tax you on the full, unsubsidized price on the phone. Then VZW (or any other carrier) signs you up for a contract, through which they recoup that subsidy cost. But, you pay tax on that bill, too. Sounds like the state is double taxing the subsidy difference. >> The state wants to get tax on what an item is sold for. >> That is what the state considers "full price". [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Sounds like the state is double taxing the subsidy difference. hmmm... I don't think so. You have to compare to those who are on month-to-month. They are paying the same as you for their plan without the equipment subsidy. Aren't you effectively paying less for your plan in return for the contract commitment? -Quick >hmmm... I don't think so. You have to compare to those who are >on month-to-month. They are paying the same as you for their >plan without the equipment subsidy. Aren't you effectively paying >less for your plan in return for the contract commitment? No, since I'm on month-to-month now (have been since 6/04, VZW/BAMN/BAM customer since 6/95), I'm still paying for the equipment subsidy that I've already paid for. Hell, I'll bet I've paid the subsidies back on my Dish Network receivers 5 or 6 times over by now. >>The state wants to get tax on what an item is sold for. >>That is what the state considers "full price". [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Sounds like the state is double taxing the subsidy difference. Here is the double-talk from the California tax board: You are not just buying a phone; you are buying a (phone + service) package. The phone part is subject to sales tax, the service is not. The cellular company allows you to pay only part of the price of the phone at the time you purchase it, and for the first couple of payments on your "service" you are really paying off the balance on the phone. So you really are paying the unsubsidized price of the phone, just in an installment plan, and thus should pay sales tax on the unsubsidized price. Of course, this is really BS; the state tax board was ticked off about losing the revenue on the cell phone sales, and found a creative rational to recover the revenue. >>> The state wants to get tax on what an item is sold for. >>> That is what the state considers "full price". [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > losing the revenue on the cell phone sales, and found a creative > rational to recover the revenue. Yea. That doesn't figure. If it did then the plan price should go down when you go month-to-month. But this is a different thread. -Quick <snip> > Yea. That doesn't figure. If it did then the plan price should go down > when you go month-to-month. But this is a different thread. > > -Quick Bottom line that folks miss is this. Original Price of Cell Phone: $300 Subsidized Price w/ 2 yr. $ 50 Savings of $250 Min. Plan plus 17.5% tax $ 30 x 24=$720 + $126=$946.00 Your plan could be higher. Now figure this: Pay full retail for the Cell $300 plus Tax = $325.00 Min Plan plus 17.5% tax $946.00 _____________________________________________________ $1271.00 with 2 year Contract $ 798.00 with 1 year Contract Vs. $ 996.00 With 2 Year Contract The cost of the phone with $175 ETF $225 which saves you $75 but the tax is that much so you are locked in for that $75 savings. Yeah right. Pay the full price and be able to leave when you want, and save a whole year or more and be on top. Elector > > Check again. I think you may have paid tax on $519. They have to > > charge tax on the retail price of the phone. Not the discounted [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > rebate). If a car's MSRP is $30,000, and you end up agreeing with > the dealer to pay $27,000, do you pay sales tax on $30,000? In California, a state law says that when a telephone is discounted as part of a promotion for getting a customer to sign a term contract, the sales tax is on the full price of the phone--not the MSRP, but the "no plan" price the retailer charges. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Vote for John Kerry. >>> Check again. I think you may have paid tax on $519. They have to >>> charge tax on the retail price of the phone. Not the discounted [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > the sales tax is on the full price of the phone--not the MSRP, but > the "no plan" price the retailer charges. Ok... let's take your example to California. Would that be tax on $519 or $219? -Quick > > In California, a state law says that when a telephone is discounted > > as part of a promotion for getting a customer to sign a term [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Ok... let's take your example to California. Would that be tax on > $519 or $219? $519--maybe on $419, depending on how they consider the $100 credit for New-Every-Two. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Vote for John Kerry. Michelle Steiner wrote on [Sun, 24 Oct 2004 23:55:57 -0700]: >> > In California, a state law says that when a telephone is discounted >> > as part of a promotion for getting a customer to sign a term [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > $519--maybe on $419, depending on how they consider the $100 credit for > New-Every-Two. What a rip! > > So, for instance, when I bought a V710 at the beginning of > > September, the full price was $519; the one-year-contract price was [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > charge tax on the retail price of the phone. Not the discounted > price. That is dependent upon state law; what you wrote is true for California (and perhaps some other states), but not for my state. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Vote for John Kerry. Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in news:michelle- C5DB1E.22483824102004@news.west.cox.net: >> > So, for instance, when I bought a V710 at the beginning of >> > September, the full price was $519; the one-year-contract price was [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > That is dependent upon state law; what you wrote is true for California > (and perhaps some other states), but not for my state. Or any normal state. >>>I went on the web site for 'upgrade phone' but all of the phones >>>available to me via this method did not have speaker phone capability. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Kyocera already has one on the market. The "slider" has a speakerphone >in it. No, there's supposed to be another one coming out "soon", according to my local store rep. FWIW. |
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