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Cellular Phone Forum / Providers / Verizon / April 2005Weird area code problem
On the Verizon America's Choice plan (with VX4500 phone) I have the annoying problem of needing to dial the area code on virtually every number, even when calling "down the block". I've had cell phones/plans for years with different carriers and this is definitely not normal compared to my previous experience. Does anyone know what would cause this? Could it have something to do with a phone setting? I plan to talk with Verizon customer service about it, but I thought I'd ask around a little first. TIA > On the Verizon America's Choice plan (with VX4500 phone) I > have the annoying problem of needing to dial the area code > on virtually every number Even on phone numbers in the same area code as the phone?  SignatureJustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638) Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED "The wisdom of a fool won't set you free" --New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle" >> On the Verizon America's Choice plan (with VX4500 phone) I >> have the annoying problem of needing to dial the area code >> on virtually every number > > Even on phone numbers in the same area code as the phone? Depending on where you live, they have added new area codes to some areas lately. When a local calling area goes to multiple area codes, they usually go to 10 digit dialing when there are multiple area codes in the same local areas, and it get really strange when a cell exchange is in a different area code. Where are you located at? >>>On the Verizon America's Choice plan (with VX4500 phone) I >>>have the annoying problem of needing to dial the area code [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Depending on where you live, they have added new area codes to some areas > lately. When a local calling area goes to multiple area codes, they usually SOMETIMES. For example, 909/951 here was a split, not an overlay, and 10D dialing isn't required. 909 stayed in lower San Bernardino County, basically; Riverside County got 951. (More or less.) SignatureJustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638) Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED "The wisdom of a fool won't set you free" --New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle" >>> On the Verizon America's Choice plan (with VX4500 phone) I >>> have the annoying problem of needing to dial the area code [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > different area code. > Where are you located at? Well, this has become a lively discussion <g>. I'm located in Ventura, California - area code 805. >>>> On the Verizon America's Choice plan (with VX4500 phone) I >>>> have the annoying problem of needing to dial the area code [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Well, this has become a lively discussion <g>. I'm located in > Ventura, California - area code 805. Not sure on that one. I live in Baltimore, and when they split area codes they went to 10 digit dialing, even in my house (have to dial 10 digits even to call my sister downstairs in the laundry room). Did have to use 10 digit in ventura hills, and when I was in Tampa, but that may have been cuz I was from out of state. > Well, this has become a lively discussion <g>. I'm located in Ventura, > California - area code 805. alt.cellular.verizon.california, anyone? ;p SignatureJustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638) Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED "The wisdom of a fool won't set you free" --New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle" : On the Verizon America's Choice plan (with VX4500 phone) I : have the annoying problem of needing to dial the area code [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] : I plan to talk with Verizon customer service about it, but I : thought I'd ask around a little first. TIA In most major cities in America, ten digit dialing is already the norm. I didn't realize you could still do seven digit dialing anywhere in the US, but I guess I was wrong. In any case, I'm not surprised Verizon AC requires ten digit dialing given that all domestic numbers are "free long distance" in the AC network. I whined about ten digit dialing for a while when it was first imposed on us here, but since I usually need to program frequently-called numbers into my phone only once, I don't worry much about it anymore. Anyway, because of number portability, the concept of an area code will soon be a thing of the past. Andrew -- ----> Portland, Oregon, USA <---- ******************************************************************* ----> http://www.bizave.com <---- Photo Albums and Portland Info ----> To Email me remove "MYSHOES" from email address ******************************************************************* > In most major cities in America, ten digit dialing is already the > norm. I didn't realize you could still do seven digit dialing > anywhere in the US, but I guess I was wrong. In any case, I'm not > surprised Verizon AC requires ten digit dialing given that all domestic > numbers are "free long distance" in the AC network. There are several places that still have 7-digit dialing. Annoyingly, the NPA that includes Apple Valley, California, even allows 7-digit dialing for toll calls. (or at least Verizon's landline switches allow it in my immediate area.) I can dial 760-301-xxxx in Ridgecrest, an hour north of here and definitely long distance, with seven digits. I'm also in 760. I've misdialed long distance numbers quite a few times when I meant to call local numbers. That having been said, I've never used a carrier (not Verizon, not Sprint, not Alltel nor GTE nor Northcoast PCS) that *always* required ten digits to dial. It's always been seven if you're dialing to the same area code, ten otherwise, with the initial "1" being optional. SignatureJustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638) Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED "The wisdom of a fool won't set you free" --New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle" >> In most major cities in America, ten digit dialing is already the >> norm. I didn't realize you could still do seven digit dialing [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > ten digits to dial. It's always been seven if you're dialing to the > same area code, ten otherwise, with the initial "1" being optional. Must be a small city.. Heck, when I was living in LA we had at least 5 Area codes, when I visit mom in NYC there are like 7 or 8...:) > Must be a small city.. AC 760 extends south from Ridgecrest a few hundred miles to the Mexican border. Ridgecrest, Apple Valley/Victorville, Barstow, Palm Springs/Indio, and several suburbs of San Diego are all in 760. San Diego's at least a three-hour drive from my house. SignatureJustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638) Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED "The wisdom of a fool won't set you free" --New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle" >> Must be a small city.. > > AC 760 extends south from Ridgecrest a few hundred miles to the > Mexican border. Ridgecrest, Apple Valley/Victorville, Barstow, Palm > Springs/Indio, and several suburbs of San Diego are all in 760. San > Diego's at least a three-hour drive from my house. Okay.. sorry.. a bunch of small cities :) >>>Must be a small city.. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Okay.. sorry.. a bunch of small cities :) Define small :P Apple Valley: population of around 60,000 Victorville: around 80,000 Hesperia: also around 60,000 :) SignatureJustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638) Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED "The wisdom of a fool won't set you free" --New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle" >>>> Must be a small city.. >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > :) If it's less than 1 million (funny, that's 7 digits!) it's small....... But to answer your definition, I grew up in a town in Indiana that had a population of about 2,500... We were big compared to some of the other places nearby pop 100-200 <--- that's micro! It is alleged that Peter Pan claimed: ; If it's less than 1 million (funny, that's 7 digits!) it's small....... But Which is meaningless when one person can have multiple numbers. Landline, cellular, dedicated FAX/modem, beeper... I used to know someone who had five cellular numbers. Businesses can have hundreds of individual landline phone numbers in a single building, plus corporate provided cellulars, etc. SignatureJeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol "That's one down and what, several thousand more to go?" "Yeah, well if this war is going to be as bad as Delenn says we'll need all the First Ones we can find." (Cmdr. Ivanova and Capt. Sheridan, B5 "Voices Of Authority") The 1960 census of my home town was 599. Now it is 1040 and the area code it used to be in has been split twice. A village one mile away was around 200. That old area code which used to cover a little more than a quarter of the state, but most of the states population, now covers one county. >>>> Must be a small city.. >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Victorville: around 80,000 > Hesperia: also around 60,000 Ummm, I live in San Jose, CA. Not so small. Area code: 408 Land Line: SBC (Pac*bell), 7 digit dialing Cellular: VZW, 7 digit dialing -Quick Actually north up to Lone Pine, Bishop, Mammoth Lakes, to Topaz Lake, and east to Death Valley too. The 760 is the largest area code in California. We old timers can remember when it was part of the 619 (now San Diego) and 714 (now south Orange County) area codes. >> Must be a small city.. > > AC 760 extends south from Ridgecrest a few hundred miles to the Mexican > border. Ridgecrest, Apple Valley/Victorville, Barstow, Palm Springs/Indio, > and several suburbs of San Diego are all in 760. San Diego's at least a > three-hour drive from my house. > Actually north up to Lone Pine, Bishop, Mammoth Lakes, to Topaz Lake, and > east to Death Valley too. The 760 is the largest area code in California. > We old timers can remember when it was part of the 619 (now San Diego) and > 714 (now south Orange County) area codes. Yup. You can still find phone numbers printed on buildings here with the 619 AC occasionally, and Johnny D's in Apple Valley has old newspaper stories about Roy Rogers' Apple Valley Inn, which at the time was in 714. :) SignatureJustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638) Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED "The wisdom of a fool won't set you free" --New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle" In New Hampshire. Maine and Vermont, all numbers within your own stat can still be reached via 7-digit dialing. None of these states hav had any new area codes introduced since the Area Code system wa developed in the 1940's. I think the same is true of Rhode Island. Cell phones also allow 7-digit dialing, unless you are roaming, i which case you need 10 digits, even within your own state. As a matter of practice, I program 10 digits for all phone boo entries, even local ones. That way, I can dial a number via the phon book easily, whether I am down the street from it or in another state. -wa >Must be a small city.. Heck, when I was living in LA we had at least 5 Area >codes, when I visit mom in NYC there are like 7 or 8...:) We have 7-digit dialing, even for toll calls, here in New Jersey, the most densely-populated state in the country. What's really annoying is that at least one wireless company in Canada (Telus?) requires a '1' to be dialed before the 10 digits. This is a major pain when roaming and you only have the 10-digit numbers in the phone's address book. SignatureBob Scheurle | "There's nobody getting njtbob@X-verizon-X.net | rich writing software." Remove X's and dashes | -- Bill Gates, March 1980 >We have 7-digit dialing, even for toll calls, here in New Jersey, the >most densely-populated state in the country. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >major pain when roaming and you only have the 10-digit numbers in the >phone's address book. I can dial a local number any of four ways. 7D (NXX-XXXX), 10D (NXX-NXX-XXXX), 1+10D (1-NXX-NXX-XXXX) or +1 NXX NXX XXXX and it all gets billed as a local call. (T-Mobile) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >>Must be a small city.. Heck, when I was living in LA we had at least 5 Area >>codes, when I visit mom in NYC there are like 7 or 8...:) > > We have 7-digit dialing, even for toll calls, here in New Jersey, the > most densely-populated state in the country. Uhm, are you sure of that? I'm in Central New Jersey, area code 732, and ten digit dialing has been required for all of our calls since mid-2002. Our local calling area includes area codes 732, 908 and 848. To further complicate matters, while MOST people in my area have 732 numbers, not ALL numbers in the 732 area code are considered local... some are considered regional in-state LD (though having a cell phone as my primary line and VoIP as secondary, this makes absolutely no difference to me). Likewise, some 908 numbers are local, but some are not. And as far as I know 848 is just about all considered local (though 848 numbers are still very rare). SignatureE-mail fudged to thwart spammers. Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply. >> We have 7-digit dialing, even for toll calls, here in New Jersey, the >> most densely-populated state in the country. > >Uhm, are you sure of that? I'm in Central New Jersey, area code 732, >and ten digit dialing has been required for all of our calls since >mid-2002. Yup. Go to http://www.areacode-info.com , click on Plans, then Local Dialing, and enter an area code. The lower right section of the subsequent page gives the required and permissive dialing patterns. The 609, 856, and 908 area codes allow 7-digit dialing. SignatureBob Scheurle | "There's nobody getting njtbob@X-verizon-X.net | rich writing software." Remove X's and dashes | -- Bill Gates, March 1980 >>>We have 7-digit dialing, even for toll calls, here in New Jersey, the >>>most densely-populated state in the country. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > The 609, 856, and 908 area codes allow 7-digit dialing. According to that, 10 digit dialing is required in area code 407. However, with my mobile phone, I can do 7 digit dialing to any 407 number. I'm guessing that somehow switches for mobile phones which can roam are different from switches of fixed location wirelines? TH On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 13:15:00 -0400, Isaiah Beard <sacredpoet@sacredpoet.com> chose to add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and everything: >> We have 7-digit dialing, even for toll calls, here in New Jersey, the >> most densely-populated state in the country. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >far as I know 848 is just about all considered local (though 848 numbers >are still very rare). Are you sure you're not just dialing 10 digits because of the VoIP? My father has that and has to dial 10 digits even though 7 will still work for a regular phone in his area code. (OTOH, he never has to dial 1 for any area code.) SignatureDavid Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time. "Firms remember their employees Some hand out bogus checks and others present gifts" - headline in the 'Philadelphia Record' > Are you sure you're not just dialing 10 digits because of > the VoIP? My father has that and has to dial 10 digits > even though 7 will still work for a regular phone in his > area code. (OTOH, he never has to dial 1 for any area > code.) Voice over IP? Is it like the VoIP phone dials a local number and it goes IP from there? or one of those IP phones plugged "directly" into an internet connection? Either way your phone is going to be talking to (or is) something that is going to map a phone number to an IP address. They don't want to have to localize their software or rely on callerID or anything like that. In other words, if you only sent 7 digits to this VoIP server how is it going to know where you or itself is (what's the originating area code?). -Quick On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 00:11:15 -0700, "Quick" <quick7135-news@NOSPAMyahoo.com> chose to add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and everything: >> Are you sure you're not just dialing 10 digits because of >> the VoIP? My father has that and has to dial 10 digits [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >this VoIP server how is it going to know where you >or itself is (what's the originating area code?). He has Vonage. A regular phone plugs into a special cable modem inline with the one for his computer. But something somewhere has to know his phone number so that his phone will ring when someone calls him and so that his number will show up on caller ID when he calls someone (which is a whole other story). Therefore, it seems like it should know that a 7-digit number would be in the same area code as him. (However, they had to actually set him up so that 911 would go to the proper place, and as he understands it, when he dials 911, Vonage's computer dials the conventional number that goes to the same call center as 911 would if he had an ordinary landline.) SignatureDavid Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time. "You're insubordinate!" - Gen. Steele "Right!" - Hawkeye Pierce "You're insolent!" "Right! And you're nuts!" > On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 00:11:15 -0700, "Quick" > <quick7135-news@NOSPAMyahoo.com> chose to add this to the [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > conventional number that goes to the same call center as > 911 would if he had an ordinary landline.) Ahhh, an IP phone then. So they have some call agent sitting somewhere to control his box and set up the calls with the appropriate media gateways (IP <-> TDM). His "cable modem" is going to be a bit more than that and actually a tiny gateway itself. I would think the problem is with localization. The call agent could download digit maps to the box to allow 7-digit dialing where it is allowed but that could require an individualized set of digit maps for each IP address. A single IP subnet could cover an area with different dialing rules. I can imagine that this could require a lot of additional resources and more importantly provisioning when setting up an account. Then the box has to play messages etc. "the number you have dialed requires an area code"... Remember that the box is not connected to the local POTS system. The local class 5 switch handles all this good stuff on your land line. Then you have to keep track of *all* dialing rule changes, area code changes, etc. for the entire country. I suppose, technically, it could be done but it's a whole lot easier, less overhead, less maintenance, and less expensive to simply require 10 digit dialing. -Quick >>Must be a small city.. Heck, when I was living in LA we had at least 5 Area >>codes, when I visit mom in NYC there are like 7 or 8...:) [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > major pain when roaming and you only have the 10-digit numbers in the > phone's address book. IIRC from living in Canada, the CRTC (Canada's telecom authority, similar to the FCC in the United States) required that a 1 precede the number in a toll call to be charged. 0 preceding the number indicates that you wish to make a collect call to that number. TH >IIRC from living in Canada, the CRTC (Canada's telecom authority, >similar to the FCC in the United States) required that a 1 precede the >number in a toll call to be charged. 0 preceding the number indicates >that you wish to make a collect call to that number. The US is different. 1 usually means a toll call but in some areas such as New York, Los Angeles and New York all 1 means is that an area code follows. It is not an absolute indicator that it is long distance. Since those cities all use message units pretty much all calls are timed. I don't remember it may have been Los Angeles or New York but "local" is only considered that within 12 miles. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > >Must be a small city.. Heck, when I was living in LA we had at least 5 Area > >codes, when I visit mom in NYC there are like 7 or 8...:) [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > major pain when roaming and you only have the 10-digit numbers in the > phone's address book. Here in southern Indiana I've found that some long distance calls go through fine without a 1 in front of the 10-digit number, but many will give an error message unless I use the leading 1. I started putting the 1 in front of all numbers in my phone's address book, but then the caller ID didn't work--the incoming call doesn't show a leading 1. My work around is to put each number in twice--once as the cell (or land- line) number with the leading 1 (used for dialing), and once as the pager number without the leading 1 (to give me incoming caller ID). A bit of a kludge, but it works. SignatureTheodore (Ted) Heise <theo@heise.nu> Bloomington, IN, USA >In most major cities in America, ten digit dialing is already the >norm. I didn't realize you could still do seven digit dialing >anywhere in the US, but I guess I was wrong. Chicago's original 312 went through several splits, but only one overlay, and that in the suburbs. First it became 312 in the city, 708 'burbs. Then 708 split into 708, 630, and 847. Then 312 shrank further to just downtown (plus City of Chicago offices wherever they are), with 773 for the rest. All of this allowed 7-digit dialing within the same area code, and it still does except in 847 (north suburbs), which got an overlay and went to all-10-digit. Getting back to the OP, most of us program numbers into our phone books as 10 digits anyway, so that there won't be any confusion when traveling and calling a number back home. SignatureDavid Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time. "In the opinion of competent experts it is idle to look for a commercial future for the flying machine. There is, and always will be, a limit to its carrying capacity.... Some will argue that because a machine will carry two people, another may be constructed that will carry a dozen, but those who make this contention do not understand the theory." - W.J. Jackson and Thomas Russell, _Flying Machines: Construction and Operation_, 1910 It is alleged that Swingman claimed: ; On the Verizon America's Choice plan (with VX4500 phone) I ; have the annoying problem of needing to dial the area code ; on virtually every number, even when calling "down the ; block". I've had cell phones/plans for years with different I've had to dial the area code for all phone calls, cellular or landline, for several years. This started when the FCC and/or phone companies started overlaying area codes. I just consider phone numbers to be 10 digits now instead of 7. I'm sure 50 years ago my grandparents felt the same as you now when they had to start including the three digit prefix to the four digit main number. The only difference to me now is that on the cellular, I don't have to include a leading "1" (except for tollfree numbers), whereas on my landline, if it's not in my own town, I have to include it. SignatureJeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol "Anything I can do to help?" "Short of dying? No." (Mr. Morden and Vir Coto, B5 "Interludes and Examinations") >I've had to dial the area code for all phone calls, cellular or >landline, for several years. This started when the FCC and/or phone >companies started overlaying area codes. I still don't understand why 10 digits would be required. If you only dial 7 digits, all the system needs to do is place the call within the same area code. A geographic overlay should be irrelevant. >I'm sure 50 years ago my >grandparents felt the same as you now when they had to start including >the three digit prefix to the four digit main number. As recently as the mid- to late-70's, Lake Placid, NY, had 4-digit dialing. SignatureBob Scheurle | "There's nobody getting njtbob@X-verizon-X.net | rich writing software." Remove X's and dashes | -- Bill Gates, March 1980 Bob Scheurle Wrote: > On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:11:20 -0400, Jeffrey Kaplan <acv@gordol.org> > wrote:[color=blue] [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > same area code. A geographic overlay should be irrelevant. > [color=blue] Usually when overlays are introduced, the local merchants insist o 10-digit dialling being required, otherwise they claim that a merchan with an "old" area code has an unfair advantage over one that i assigned a "new" area code. In other words, everybody should b equally inconvenienced, regardless of whether it's technicall necessary or not! -wa >>I've had to dial the area code for all phone calls, cellular or >>landline, for several years. This started when the FCC and/or phone [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >dial 7 digits, all the system needs to do is place the call within the >same area code. A geographic overlay should be irrelevant. To give an example, but while possible with the overlay, I don't think it is real ... in Charlotte NC, 2 homes, next door to one another, could have the phone numbers 704-377-1234 and 980-377-1234 "OH!", Mr. Kaplan said ... <g> Indeed, the same house, if a 2nd line was requested, could have the other area code ... this HAS been reported to have happened in the Atlanta area, one of the earlier on the eastern side of the US to have an overlay. George On 4/7/05 7:43 AM, in article qvda51tkv990hoinlk2q6ji1tjbd11o31u@4ax.com, >>> I've had to dial the area code for all phone calls, cellular or >>> landline, for several years. This started when the FCC and/or phone [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> dial 7 digits, all the system needs to do is place the call within the >> same area code. A geographic overlay should be irrelevant. I believe phone systems don't listen to all the numbers being dialed but only enough numbers to make a connection. You know those business numbers with words in them spelled out that actually use 11 digits (or more). The digits after 10 are ignored. And when they went away from only using 0s and 1s as the 2nd digit of "area codes" in the 1990s phone systems could no longer distinguish whether the first three digits were an area code or not. > To give an example, but while possible with the overlay, I don't think > it is real ... in Charlotte NC, 2 homes, next door to one another, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Atlanta area, one of the earlier on the eastern side of the US to have > an overlay. They have 10 digit dialing in the Dallas, TX area and when I lived there a couple years ago I had 4 lines with 3 different "area codes" in my house. Land lines with 972 and 469 area codes and cell phones with 214. It's taken me a while to get used to 7 digit dialing here in Northern Colorado where I live now. The Qwest land lines here won't even let you dial 10 digits in the local area (you get a recording telling you to only dial 7 digits). Steve > The Qwest land lines here won't even let you > dial 10 digits in the local area (you get a recording > telling you to only dial 7 digits). Now that's bad.... "how did they figure out to play the recording?"... -:) -Quick It is the same for me. If you attempt to dial 10 numbers and the first one is not a one, then it takes the first three digits and checks to see if it is a currently used exchange. If it is not a currently used exchange, you get an error message. If it is a currently used exchange it then looks at the next four numbers and ignores the last three. If they are to an active line, it places the call, to some stranger. If they are not to an active line, you get an error message. If you attempt to dial 10 numbers and the first one is a one, then similar to the above, it checks the second through fourth for an active area code, the fifth through seventh for an active exchange, then waits for the last, eleventh, digit and gives an error message when it does not get one. In other words, I can place a local call to an active number and dial as many numbers after it as I want and they are all ignored. > In other words, I can place a local call to an active number and > dial as many numbers after it as I want and they are all ignored. Sort of necessary, what with advertising, no? "Call 1-800-MATTRESS!" "Call 1-312-FREEOFFERFORYOUTODAYONLY!" SignatureI miss my .signature. When I said "place a local call", I meant a 7 digit number, but yes, it applies to your example of long distance calls too. It is alleged that GeorgeB claimed: ; On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 00:52:55 GMT, Bob Scheurle ; <njtbob@X-verizon-X.net> wrote: ; ; >On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:11:20 -0400, Jeffrey Kaplan <acv@gordol.org> ; >wrote: ; >>I've had to dial the area code for all phone calls, cellular or ; >>landline, for several years. This started when the FCC and/or phone ; >>companies started overlaying area codes. ; > ; >I still don't understand why 10 digits would be required. If you only ; >dial 7 digits, all the system needs to do is place the call within the ; >same area code. A geographic overlay should be irrelevant. ; ; To give an example, but while possible with the overlay, I don't think ; it is real ... in Charlotte NC, 2 homes, next door to one another, ; could have the phone numbers 704-377-1234 and 980-377-1234 ; ; "OH!", Mr. Kaplan said ... <g> Please get your attributions right. I'm not the one questioning 10 digit dialing. I'm one of the people explaining it. Mr. Scheurle is the one who is questioning it. SignatureJeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol "So you support a system that would leave everyone blind and toothless?" "Not everyone. Just the bad guys." (Amb. Delenn and Mr. Garibaldi, B5 "Passing Through Gethsemane") I TOP POST MY APOLOGY ... VERY SORRY to have missed the appropriate author. George >It is alleged that GeorgeB claimed: > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >digit dialing. I'm one of the people explaining it. Mr. Scheurle is >the one who is questioning it. It is alleged that Bob Scheurle claimed: ; I still don't understand why 10 digits would be required. If you only ; dial 7 digits, all the system needs to do is place the call within the ; same area code. A geographic overlay should be irrelevant. Area codes used to have two distinct patterns, X1X and X0X. When they started allowing any number for the middle digit, it then became programmatically difficult, if not impossible, to determine if it was an area code or prefix. And unlike cellphones, landline phones do not have a "send" button, so the telco reads in the number for routing as you enter it. Therefore, it would have no way of knowing if 978 is a Massachusetts area code or the prefix for your neighbor across town. By requiring 10 digit dialing, the telco once again has a predictable way of ensuring that it knows where to route the call. SignatureJeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol "I understand just fine. By this time tomorrow, we will be at war with the Narn. May the Great Maker forgive me." (Amb. Mollari, B5 "The Coming of Shadows") Sure it can. It checks to see if the first digit is a one. It is alleged that Jerome Zelinske claimed: ; Sure it can. It checks to see if the first digit is a one. Perhaps you missed the part where I said that for calls within my own town, I do NOT need to dial the 1, but I do when I call the next town over. AAMOF, if I try to dial with a 1 within my town, I get an error, and if I try to dial without a 1 when calling the next town, I get an error. SignatureJeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol "I want us to be what we used to be. I want... I want it all back the way that it was!" (Amb. Mollari, B5 "Signs and Portents") If I dial a number within my own town, in my case the entire county, I also do not need to dial a one, and I also do not need an area code. Calls to the next area code over do need the one even if it is a local call. The big difference here is you said your area code has had an overlay of a second area code. Here we did a split. Which seems more sensible to me. It is alleged that Jerome Zelinske claimed: ; If I dial a number within my own town, in my case the entire county, I ; also do not need to dial a one, and I also do not need an area code. ; Calls to the next area code over do need the one even if it is a local ; call. ; The big difference here is you said your area code has had an overlay ; of a second area code. Here we did a split. Which seems more sensible ; to me. Metro Boston (area codes 617 and 781) allegedly have overlays. When I was working at a local ISP, we were given the overlay info. I was laid off from there almost three years ago, and we had that info for at least a half year previous. I don't think the overlays have actually been used yet, as I have yet to see an unfamiliar area code for the region. MA area codes 978, 413 and 508 do not have overlays. SignatureJeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol "You, what is going on?" "Haven't you heard? The Earth Alliance just declared Martial Law." (Amb. Mollari and Minbari, B5 "Point Of No Return") >Metro Boston (area codes 617 and 781) allegedly have overlays. When I >was working at a local ISP, we were given the overlay info. I was laid >off from there almost three years ago, and we had that info for at >least a half year previous. I don't think the overlays have actually >been used yet, as I have yet to see an unfamiliar area code for the >region. MA area codes 978, 413 and 508 do not have overlays. You evidently do not get out very much if you think that overlay area codes are not used in Massachusetts. I know personally people who have 339 numbers in the 781 area and I personally know people in the 617 area who have 857 area code numbers. And just FYI 978 has the overlay 351, and 508 has 774. 413 is the only Massachusetts area code with no overlay. Just why the Mass. PUC allowed Massachusetts to be so wasteful with area code resources when they could have overlayed one or possibly two area codes over the whole former 617 area is a mystery. If you doubt me go to http://www.nanpa.com and see for yourself. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - It is alleged that Joseph claimed: ; >least a half year previous. I don't think the overlays have actually ; >been used yet, as I have yet to see an unfamiliar area code for the ; >region. MA area codes 978, 413 and 508 do not have overlays. ; You evidently do not get out very much if you think that overlay area ; codes are not used in Massachusetts. I know personally people who I knew they were assigned, I just haven't seen them. ; have 339 numbers in the 781 area and I personally know people in the ; 617 area who have 857 area code numbers. And just FYI 978 has the ; overlay 351, and 508 has 774. 413 is the only Massachusetts area code I don't recall seeing mention of those. Either I don't remember, I never saw that info, or they're newer. Any of those three is possible. ; with no overlay. Just why the Mass. PUC allowed Massachusetts to be ; so wasteful with area code resources when they could have overlayed ; one or possibly two area codes over the whole former 617 area is a I'd guess for the same reason why 617 was split in the first place. Why take the chance of having to split the overlayed area codes within a few years, if you have the numberspace to just set them now. And/or, since the area codes do follow a geographic map, it would be easier conceptually to just make the overlays follow the same map. SignatureJeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol "You, what is going on?" "Haven't you heard? The Earth Alliance just declared Martial Law." (Amb. Mollari and Minbari, B5 "Point Of No Return") >Here we did a split. Which seems more sensible >to me. Until the splits don't have any rationality when you keep making smaller and smaller areas. Eventually your city will have multiple area codes and any supposed 7 digit advantage will be gone. I'm not sure if people are afraid they're going to sprain their fingers punching three extra buttons but I am amazed that so many people can get bent out of shape about it. If you can't remember three extra numbers write it down! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The rationality is that an area has one area code. So you would automatically know the area code if you know the address, or at least the general location. If that area would be reduced in size to only half the county so that someone in the northern half of the city would have to call a different area code to make a call to the southern half of the city, then the proper use of area codes to designate separate areas would still be valid. 7 vs. 10 vs. 11 digit landline calls have different rules in different parts of the U.S. Some areas have what is called "toll alerting", which means that any call which is not "free" must be dialed with a leading 1. A few years ago, 1+7 was allowed, but now it must be 1+3+7. Under this scheme, calls to the same area code which are toll calls must by dialed with 11 digits. Some such areas allow non-toll calls which cross area codes to be dialed with 10 digits. Some areas (such as Texas, I believe) have what I call "non-toll alerting", where non-toll calls *cannot* be dialed with the leading 1; free calls *must* be dialed as 7 or 10 digits. Some areas have "1 means area code follows", that is, 11-digits total. Often, you can also use 7-digit calling in such areas. 11-digit calls may be free, and 7 digit calls may be toll, depending on the distance. Northern California, where I live, is such an area. I believe that the FCC has ruled that areas with area code overlays cannot allow 7-digit dialing, to avoid giving advantage to the established phone company. And to make it interesting, the rules on cell phones may or may not follow the rules for landline phones. And with landline companies following the lead of wireless companies and offering extended toll-free areas, this means that the dialing pattern may vary depending on the rate plan on that particular line. > 7 vs. 10 vs. 11 digit landline calls have different rules in different > parts of the U.S. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > offering extended toll-free areas, this means that the dialing pattern > may vary depending on the rate plan on that particular line. Wow. If AT&T was still Ma Bell and had most of the entire country, it probably wouldn't be so complicated. TH > Wow. If AT&T was still Ma Bell and had most of the entire country, it > probably wouldn't be so complicated. > > TH And we would probably be paying $3.75/minute to use mobile phones... >> Wow. If AT&T was still Ma Bell and had most of the entire country, it >> probably wouldn't be so complicated. >> >> TH > > And we would probably be paying $3.75/minute to use mobile phones... BUT -- There would probably no coverage issues, no system busy issues, customer service would be top notch -- because they'd be able to afford to finance those things. th > BUT -- > > There would probably no coverage issues, no system busy issues, customer > service would be top notch -- because they'd be able to afford to > finance those things. BUT -- Who could afford cellular service? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Yee E-Mail: ayee AT mn dot rr dot com President Home Page: http://home.mn.rr.com/andyyee New Directions Engineering, Inc. Godwin's Law: As a USENET thread grows, the probability of a reference to Hitler or Nazis approaches 1.00. Corollary: When such a reference is made, it is generally recognized that the poster has LOST the argument. Signature--- I work for the ILEC ...." stuff happens! " > Wow. If AT&T was still Ma Bell and had most of the entire country, it > probably wouldn't be so complicated. Yeah, and we'd all be raving about those new 33.6 connections!! > TH On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 04:13:48 GMT, Jerome Zelinske <jeromez1@earthlink.net> chose to add this to the great equation of life, the universe, and everything: > The rationality is that an area has one area code. So you would >automatically know the area code if you know the address, or at least [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >of the city, then the proper use of area codes to designate separate >areas would still be valid. The biggest argument in favor of overlays vs. splits seems to come from businesses that may suddenly have large quantities of letterhead, business cards, advertising, etc. made worthless because their area code changed. (Some businesses, however, are too cheap to care. A friend of mine, until the day he left his job (because they weren't paying him), was driving the company van which still had 312 painted on it several years after it changed to 708 and then changed again to 630.) SignatureDavid Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time. "640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981 It is alleged that Joseph claimed: ; Until the splits don't have any rationality when you keep making ; smaller and smaller areas. Eventually your city will have multiple ; area codes and any supposed 7 digit advantage will be gone. I'm not ; sure if people are afraid they're going to sprain their fingers ; punching three extra buttons but I am amazed that so many people can ; get bent out of shape about it. If you can't remember three extra ; numbers write it down! I'm waiting for when we switch to full alphanumeric comm codes. SignatureJeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol "You, what is going on?" "Haven't you heard? The Earth Alliance just declared Martial Law." (Amb. Mollari and Minbari, B5 "Point Of No Return") >The only difference to me now is that on the cellular, I don't have to >include a leading "1" (except for tollfree numbers) You do? I don't use a 1 for toll-free numbers and they work just fine. SignatureDavid Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time. "It's not how good you can play when you play good. It's how good you play when you play bad and we can play as bad as anyone in the country." - Hugh Durham, University of Georgia basketball coach It is alleged that David S claimed: ; >The only difference to me now is that on the cellular, I don't have to ; >include a leading "1" (except for tollfree numbers) ; ; You do? I don't use a 1 for toll-free numbers and they work just fine. Last time I tried, it wouldn't go through without the leading 1. That was at least a year ago, though. SignatureJeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol "Sometimes I think our women are right when they shave their heads and rise above these things." (Emperor Turhan, B5 "The Coming of Shadows") >It is alleged that David S claimed: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Last time I tried, it wouldn't go through without the leading 1. That >was at least a year ago, though. I've been doing it for several years. SignatureDavid Streeter, "an internet god" -- Dave Barry http://home.att.net/~dwstreeter Remove the naughty bit from my address to reply Expect a train on ANY track at ANY time. "Statistically, the average bat is far less likely to be rabid than Pat Buchanan." - Dave Barry > I've been doing it for several years. Me too, with Verizon, Sprint PCS, Alltel, GTE Wireless, and Northcoast PCS. Works on all five carriers (well, *worked* on GTE.) :) SignatureJustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638) Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED "The wisdom of a fool won't set you free" --New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle" |
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